What is the fascination with Real Madrid?!

(26-03-2010 16:30 )Mister Gummidge Wrote:  David Healy has a phenomenal record of scoring goals at international level. It doesn't make him the best player around, not by a long chalk, just a reasonable quality striker who's spent some time playing in a side perfectly set up to accommodate his style of play. David Villa is a very good striker (I'm not trying to imply he's only as good as Healy, that would be stupid), but he's not significantly better than half a dozen other goal poachers playing football right now (Torres, Klose, Rooney, Defoe, Eto'o, Ibrahimovic...). He simply benefits from being part of a pair of sides which set themselves up to feed a single striker. I've watched him play quite a bit, for both Valencia and Spain and feel very comfortable in my assertion that he's a far better than average striker, but no more and certainly no less than that. Putting ball into net is a very valuable ability indeed, but it's helped significantly by being in a team that focuses itself entirely on feeding a single player. Looking at Ibrahimovic's records at Inter and Barcelona shows that difference to a player's goal scoring ratio quite starkly. For Valencia, their only attacking concern is geting the ball to Villa, then hoping that if Silva didn't lay it on, he's the one backing up. For Spain, he always looks far better as the solitary attacking prong ahead of a five man midfield, than he does as part of a three or two man attack.

The central midfield is very pretty indeed, but it's lightweight and can be closed down effectively by any reasonable quality side willing to put in a good shift of pressing. Of the three players in there, only Xabi Alonso has the footballing nous to play well when everything else is being effectively closed down, something he learned he playing against the the physically strong and aggressively defensive (Yes, it's a real approach. Close down quickly, tackle hard and start the defence in the opposition's half of the pitch) mentality of sides like Blackburn and Stoke. Rubin Kazan made made Xavi and Iniesta look like the show ponies they really are. In the Euros two years ago, Spain only got past Italy and Germany by the skin of their teeth. They aren't the invincible and untouchable side people gull themselves into thinking they are, unless you sit back to stare in awe at the pretty little triangles they pass the ball in.

You state that my opinions are based on ignorance. Not true, I love football and watch matches from as many leagues as I possibly can. I watch Spanish football and enjoy it immensely, but I don't trick myself into thinking that foreign and exotic equals intrinsically better. I would argue that your opinion is based on watching a league with 2 real teams & 2 pretty good teams in it, plus 14 bunny rabbits who park the bus and pray for an off day from the big boys, then think that that watching swaggering bullies dominate psychologically pathetic sides with no real belief in their own ability to beat them constitutes the totality of worthy football. People who do that with the EPL (Also a two team league) are labelled as myopic, nationalistic partisans, yet no-one bothers to question those who do it with Spain, or those who did it with Italy in the 90's.

Spain and are not invincible or inherently superior to England. Both national sides are very good, but both are only one of a pair of sides out of 6 or 7 who have a genuine shout of winning the world cup. Holland, Argentina, Brazil, Germany and Italy are all equally capable of winning the tournament, as well as England and Spain. Anyone who thinks England have no chance at all is as blinkered and tunnel-visioned as those who claim England are the favourites. The same applies to Spain. It's a seven game winning streak to win it, and Spain's defensive frailties and unwillingness to do the necessary and ugly is just as likely to cost them the tournament as England's lack of creative flair. Big tournaments are rarely won by flair alone. Just ask Italy, the dullest and least talented national side to win multiple world cups.

I think where you're wrong is pigeon holing Villa as a goal poacher. He much more than that, he links up play well, he can drift left, drift right, he can play football. He's probably the most natural finisher in the world. Same with Ibra, Eto'o and Torres. Right now you'd have to say Rooney is a fox in the box, as his build up play has deteriorated this season and he's benefited of staying up front.
I believe Spain now play with two up front ever since Del Bosque took over, so in that sense ur wrong.

Ur also neglecting other factors which separate the superior strikers such as movement and position in the box. The likes of Villa, Torres and co are way ahead in those stakes. With Defoe, his link up play is poor, he's an out an out striker. I'd say if he really was that good, he'd be playing Champions League football. No-one really has come in for him. Another gripe i'd have with him is that he's reluctant to use his left foot.

As for Ibra, Barcelona are a more attacking side than Inter and create probably double, if not triple the amount of chances. So it's not surprise his scoring ratio is better for Barca.

Good pressing? I don't know if you play football, but do you know how incredibly hard it is 2 press sum1 for 90+ minutes? Let alone do your own attacking. The other problem with pressing them is that these players have such high technical ability that 1-touch passing is easy for them, they'll just pass it around u before you get close. If you get touch tight, they'll do the same. Even if you are effective in pressing, they'll just drop deeper, causing spaces in midfield, allowing other runners into the space vacated. In theory playing a pressing game is simple, in action it's ridiculously hard. The advantage Spain and Barca have is that they have 10 players who are so comfortable on the ball.

Rubin Kazan caught Barca cold. Players can't perform every game, its just not possible. Calling them show ponies is a bit harsh, as they do get involved in pressing and tackling. Regardless of how they got past, they still got past, that's the name of the game. 2 years on, their players are more mature, more experienced and have been playing together for 2 more years.

I don't think they're invincible or unstoppable at all. However they are hard to beat. If when you attack, you really attack their defense then you can prosper. The problem is getting the ball and keeping it for long enough to create an opportunity.

On the contrary, I think the quality of La Liga has dipped significantly in the past 3 years and has been overtaken by the EPL, but not way out ahead.

As for England, can they win it? Yes of course, do i think they'll win it? No, i just don't think they have the necessary quality or bottle to do it, believe me i'd love to be proven wrong! There's a reason Spain and Brazil are favourites. I think its also a bit wrong calling Italy least talented. Talent is measured in different ways, organisation and tactical awareness is a talent. They still have high quality players in their side.

My personal opinion is that Argentina, the team who every1 seems to have written off, will be the team watch.

Good pressing? I don't know if you play football, but do you know how incredibly hard it is 2 press sum1 for 90+ minutes? Let alone do your own attacking. The other problem with pressing them is that these players have such high technical ability that 1-touch passing is easy for them, they'll just pass it around u before you get close. If you get touch tight, they'll do the same. Even if you are effective in pressing, they'll just drop deeper, causing spaces in midfield, allowing other runners into the space vacated. In theory playing a pressing game is simple, in action it's ridiculously hard. The advantage Spain and Barca have is that they have 10 players who are so comfortable on the ball.

That's VERY dependent upon how you go about it.......If you press the ball as a unit, it's not so difficult, on the other hand if only 2-3 individuals do it at any given time, it's nigh on unworkable. Barcelona last night gave a perfect example of both scenarios, for an hour they hunted in packs, not only pressing the ball but any passing options that the player in posession had available and also closed the space as a unit. The upshot of this was that Arsenal barely had a kick in the 1st half and looked a mess.

However in the second half once they had scored twice they took their foot off the gas (quite naturally some might say) and stopped doing the things that had put them in such a strong position in the first place. They stopped getting quite so close to the Arsenal players and allowed them to move the ball around, which ultimately allowed them back into the game. I don't think that it was tiredness as you suggest (after all, Barca seem to have no problem playing a pressing game for 90mins in La Liga, they're masters at it) more a little overconfidence, as usually there's no coming back from being 2-0 down against them, home or away.

(25-03-2010 23:20 )jimbo5030 Wrote:  As most of you already know, I'm a chelsea fan and today i read in the paper that Frank Ribery has ruled out a move to England with any club because he will only leave Bayern for Real Madrid.

How many more, 'world class' players are going to throw there career away by joining Real Madrid?!! It's so frustrating. The club as a whole has proved time and time again that you can't win anything with a club full of egos like that. I know it was unlikely he would have joined chelsea anyway but why don't these great players want to come here. I know our weather is shit but our league is easily the best in the world. I just don't get it. Our fans, stadiums are better. Fans in Spain don't have proper songs, their league is nowhere near as competetive as ours. Are they scared? When will we start seeing the worlds biggest names in English football!!

Awkward...

^ Ooh well played sir to find this!

(13-04-2022 10:15 )SecretAgent Wrote:  ^ Ooh well played sir to find this!

Cheers! Actually three threads on here about Real Madrid.

Must be a new record, bumping a 12 year old thread

Real are hands down the most glamorous and successful European team in history. At 13 times champions, nearly double the number of European Cup wins than their nearest rivals. I don't support or even like them, but you cannot deny their status. The 2010 opening of this thread is mind-boggling to read!

Champions of Spain and Europe again.