Telford

these Pakistani men (a small number) see these young white working class and vulnerable girls as less than human. for what reason? some of it cultural and how they are brought up to view woman in general. some of it social and racial, how white people have treated them as they've grown up. put this all together and add the crowd mentality and you get this vicious and disgusting behaviour.
yes some high up in police most certainly passed this problem over partly because of the colour of the offenders skin and the fear of being seen as racist and partly their preconceived notion's of these young 'chavvy' girls. race or social standing should not come into it, but neither can the police go to far and suspect all brown skin people of engaging in this behaviour.

it's a fine line but it's so important to get it right.

I agree. It’s a multitude of reasons for it. If anything you could say it shows more of how are government perceive their own, almost all the girls will have been working class and vulnerable care girls. It’s a fine balance to be achieved but it needs happening. Any sort of fear of being anti Islam when it regards to a serious criminal investigation needs to removed if there’s sufficient evidence. If it’s she said/He said then that’s even more complex. But if it’s clear evidence supportive then they need to be held to the criminal standards.

(21-03-2018 13:21 )babefan2012 Wrote:  I think we would all agree that if it was a white, British/English grooming gang on the size of the Telford one they almost certainly wouldn’t have been able to “get away” with it for soo long and they shouldn’t. It’s beyond vile and disgusting. What I’m trying to say is White, Black, Asian or Arabic, pink, whatever your race, colour or religion in this country you aren’t protected in any way whether it by corruption or Political Correctness. You are held to the same criminal standings as everyone else.

I am not entirely convinced that is true, look at the culture of sexual abuse that is being exposed in the media right now and over the last few years. There was a culture of abuse by white men at the BBC: Saville, Harris, Lee Travis that went on for years and the investigations suggested that people new about it

People knew of what Harvey Weinstein was up to, he had been taken to court and then settled but it was kept from public knowledge because he was able to use his wealth to get injunctions to silence people. Talent agencies knew about this and still sent woman to his hotel rooms because they wouldn't say anything through fear of liable action against him

When the revelations of NBC anchor Matt Lauer came to light I saw a journalist on Twitter say she knew this was coming, earlier in the year when ABC's Charlie Rose was exposed a female colleague of hers messaged her with the news and added "Matt Lauer next"

How many stories have we heard in this country of sexual abuse in child care homes? In fact in jus writing this post I googled "sexual abuse in children's homes" and got a different incident for each result on the first page and how many of the inquiries into these scandals have shown warning signs and that there was a lack of effort from authorities

and finally whilst we are on the subject of Religion... The Catholic Church ? You are telling me that there was no knowledge of this until the first story broke

The idea that Muslim or any other ethnic minority males have been shielded by PC culture is just nonsense. There have been failings from public institutions when it comes to sexual abuse since time immemorial regardless of the ethnicity or religious beliefs of the perpetrators

Also in Parliament as well, with the likes of Cyril Smith and Lord Janner

It is a problem that is endemic throughout our society regardless of colour or creed, can you explain to me why all these aforementioned people have been able to get away with abuse so often and for so long and why those reasons could not also apply to the grooming gangs of Rochdale and Telford?

They were able to get away with it for as long as they did because of money and power, they had or knew people with it. They were not by and large protected because of their skin colour, race and to some extend their religion. All the things you've mentioned are abhorrent and vile. They shouldn't have gotten away with it. But they did and through no way was it due do race, skin colour or religion.

Yes it has persisted since the dawn of time but there are different reasons why it happens. Simply highlighting other races or religions that do it i don't buy. No one says these crimes are solely to one religion, but gang rape/grooming is done majority by Pakistani origin men. This is what the subject was about.

Harvey Weinstein got a way with it because he was the no 1 movie agent or whatever in Hollywood, no one said anything because they wanted jobs and didn't want to get blacklisted, sick thing is most of Hollywood already knew. In short there's two reasons why it happens Money/Power and Race/Religion. Neither should be a precursor to what happens but it is.

What power did the people in the child care homes have over their victims that the perpetrators of Telford did not?

Here is an interview with Nazir Afzal, former Chief Prosecutor of the Crown Prosecution Service who led prosecutions in Telford and over saw cases in Rochdale. The entire interview is really good and offers some good points on where we go forward in trying to reduce these crimes and is worth a full read.

Here is a particular exchange

Interviewer: Authorities are often accused of being scared to act because of political correctness. How do you feel about that?

Afzal: I’ve not come across anybody who’s scared. I get bored of this going unchallenged. These are difficult cases to prosecute. Very often, the victim treats the prosecutor or the investigator as the bad guy for trying to destroy their “relationships”. Competence was the issue – people not understanding how to bring these cases. They had to leave their tick-boxes and their normal pro formas aside.
Some people, no doubt, may not want to offend a certain community, but I would imagine they’re in the minority. The large majority fail to engage because it’s really difficult.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk...prosecutor

In short, fear. Fear that no one would believe them because most of the people who did those things in the care homes were up standing citizens and they were only care home children, because one of this countries many, many failings is are care system. They are the most vulnerable and time and time again they are the least protected. In some way the same goes for telford, some girls were probably in fear that no one would believe again mostly down to the colour and religion and there standing.

Of course some may have developed an attachment to their groomers. As the sick thing is they are the only ones who've shown interest in them. Thats how in some ones they have gotten away with it. Same goes for care homes. In those cases its essentially she said he said. Which pro longs the situations.

I agree with a lot of what was in the article but i still believe that Political Correctness and fear to offend did play a part, however small. Not saying it played a big part but it still did. Certainly with regards to the Police. If they pulled one of the perpetrators in with only a small amount of evidence they'd be classed as racist.

Basically moving forward from this we have to remove even the tiniest hint of Political Correctness with regards to criminal investigations. As history and facts have proven Black, White, Asian, pink or whatever we're all capable of crimes and vile crimes. Sure some are more likely to be committed by white males but however small the number of gang rapist are they are still a number which needs to be held to the same standard as other criminals. You've also got the religion which like most religions keep things quite and not be open, if they were and not afraid to speak out i'm sure this could have been stopped earlier.

Thats me done. We have different views and we aren't changing each others. No matter what i say you'll just find another way to comeback to suit your view. My view is no matter what race, colour or religion you should be held accountable to your crimes. That goes for white people, rich and powerful people and also the "minority" of the rape criminals. Trying to brush the minority off i don't buy, period. But maybe i’m thinking in an ideal world.

(19-03-2018 21:25 )southsidestu Wrote:  Just out of curiosity has any of the people that you agree with, Nawaz, Khan, Alibi-Brown said that political correctness was at fault or that multiculturalism has failed and is a load of BS

When 3 predominately Pakistani Muslims in the media openly admit there are cultural problems in pockets of their community regarding the child-grooming scandal where failure to integrate into western society & merely wanting to carry on with the status-quo of practices are deemed acceptable back in Pakistan you can choose whether you want to believe them or not.
And regarding an earlier post when I mentioned practices like arranged marriages, honour-killings,women being classed as 2nd class citizens in Sharia Courts you sought some justification by saying other cultures & countries do the same thing (as if to say if they can do we can't others) as if it makes it right.

And to compare child-grooming gangs raping & abusing young vulnerable girls where perpetrators later went back to murder their victims & families to Harvey Weinstein is like comparing apples to oranges.But I don't mince my words when I say that all Paedophiles no matter what colour,creed or culture should all be chemically castrated to remove any sexual urges & be locked away for the rest of their miserable existence.

This is my last post on this topic (I'm not even going to read any more of the posts) as like Babefan has mentioned on his post above peoples opinions aren't going to change regardless & so we'll end up going in circles.

Regards.