Russian Invasion Of Ukraine - misinformation thread

A few days ago, it is reported that the U.S. Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin called the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Sergei Shoigu for the first time since February 18. Secretary Austin urged an immediate ceasefire in Ukraine and emphasized the importance of maintaining lines of communication.

So, Austin initiated the call and the U.S. is seeking a ceasefire in Ukraine!!!

Are we not told that the Ukraine is winning the war? That it will soon push the Russian forces back over the border? The operation to 'weaken Russia', which Austin had publicly announced two weeks ago. Much was claimed about the amount of deaths the Russian armed forces have had, but next to little reporting on the number of losses suffered by Ukraine. The truth is that in the east, the main parts of its forces are immobile and are getting surrounded by Russian forces. And their supply lines are now badly hit by Russia's continued bombardment of roads, railways and military infrastructure, oil depots, military stores ..etc. Perhaps the Pentagon knows this all and that is why Austin initiated the call and asked for a ceasefire.

But Russia are not agreeing to a ceasefire. One might speculate not unless the 'west' offers to take back some of the 6,400 sanction measures it has initiated against Russia.

Re: the evacuation of Azov Battallion fighters from the Azovstal Steel Plant, Zelensky said “Ukraine evacuated the Azov fighters” which I think is his most deluded public statement so far. What actually happened was that the Ukrainian military command ordered for its troops to “surrender” and they were evacuated and arrested by Russian troops (our media repeated this "Ukraine evacuated" line on news bulletins yesterday whilst simultaneously nonsensically showing footage of Russian buses transporting the now-POWs out of Mariupol!!) This one episode is emblematic of the impartial one-sided reporting throughout the whole conflict. Zelensky's well-financed western-backed PR spin cannot hide the reality of this key moment in this conflict

Media today reports that more than 900 Ukrainian troops who were at Mariupol’s besieged Azovstal steel plant have been sent to a prison colony on Russian-controlled territory. 53 seriously wounded soldiers were taken to a hospital in Novoazovsk, a nearby town which is controlled by Russian-backed separatists. It is reported that more senior Azov members remain still in the bunkers underneath the steel plant. There is speculation that an unknown number of Nato forces are still down there also

(18-05-2022 19:15 )4waydiablo Wrote:  

(18-05-2022 18:49 )crankshaft Wrote:  

(03-05-2022 14:39 )4waydiablo Wrote:  I can't see anything here that amounts to 'highly convincing circumstantial proof'. To me it comes across as nothing more than speculation.

I was not setting out in my posts to write in the manner of a submission to the Human Rights Council to present the evidence of war crimes of the Azov Battalion. I was merely writing a response on an internet thread.

Does 'highly convincing circumstantial proof' have a different meaning in an internet thread then?

context my dear boy, context

(18-05-2022 18:49 )BarrieBF Wrote:  Sequentially means one after the other and does not mean any time constraint would have been applied. The Russians could have had a meeting lasting for absolutely as long as they wanted.

Yes the Russians could have had a meeting lasting for absolutely as long as they wanted. And they still can. There's nothing to stop Russia asking for a meeting on Bucha now - with no time constraints. As the current president of the Security Council, the UK have already said they would grant such a request.

(18-05-2022 19:39 )crankshaft Wrote:  The truth is that in the east, the main parts of its forces are immobile and are getting surrounded by Russian forces. And their supply lines are now badly hit by Russia's continued bombardment of roads, railways and military infrastructure, oil depots, military stores ..etc. Perhaps the Pentagon knows this all and that is why Austin initiated the call and asked for a ceasefire.

Any links for these 'truths' you're getting that the rest of us aren't?

(18-05-2022 19:39 )crankshaft Wrote:  Re: the evacuation of Azov Battallion fighters from the Azovstal Steel Plant, Zelensky said “Ukraine evacuated the Azov fighters”

Any reports I've seen said Ukraine negotiated the evacuation. Not quite the same thing.

(18-05-2022 19:15 )4waydiablo Wrote:  Does 'highly convincing circumstantial proof' have a different meaning in an internet thread then?

It means whatever crankshaft wants it to mean!

Oh, I’m sorry, I guess you’re all right. The Azov are national heroes having endured unimaginable hardships in those bunkers. That is the line, of course, put out by our media.

Re: Bucha, & my “highly convincing circumstantial proof” that SOME (not all) killings may have been carried out by Azov Battallion hit-squads, one interpretation (yours) is that some people (me) allow themselves to be highly convinced of some limited speculative evidence. Another is that, based on a wider array of extensive reporting of correlative reports of brutality of these hit-squads in the last few months and over 8 years, that this context favourably correlated with this speculation, rendering the likelihood that this happened in Bucha entirely plausible.

This article provides an overview into a deeply disturbing trend in Ukraine, one that started in 2014, that has accelerated and intensified since 24 February 2022. Extrajudicial killings, harassment, arbitrary detentions by men in camouflaged uniforms, beatings and disappearances continue to take place on a regular basis in Ukraine. Most of the detentions and disappearances are often carried out by the Ukrainian Security service, (SBU), under a sweeping repression.

BTW, there are other neo-nazi groups in Ukraine, not just Azov Battallion, such as Ajdar, Dnepr, Tornado, Solnyshko, and others which were originally created as militia units and now are successfully integrated into the Ukraine military.

(19-05-2022 03:19 )The Silent Majority Wrote:  

(18-05-2022 19:39 )crankshaft Wrote:  The truth is that in the east, the main parts of its forces are immobile and are getting surrounded by Russian forces. And their supply lines are now badly hit by Russia's continued bombardment of roads, railways and military infrastructure, oil depots, military stores ..etc. Perhaps the Pentagon knows this all and that is why Austin initiated the call and asked for a ceasefire.

Any links for these 'truths' you're getting that the rest of us aren't?

(18-05-2022 19:39 )crankshaft Wrote:  Re: the evacuation of Azov Battallion fighters from the Azovstal Steel Plant, Zelensky said “Ukraine evacuated the Azov fighters”

Any reports I've seen said Ukraine negotiated the evacuation. Not quite the same thing.

Well on the BBC, they broadcast Zelensky saying in a press briefing “Ukraine have evacuated the Azov fighters”, and as I said already, then on the news broadcast in the next instance whilst simultaneously repeating this claptrap of Ukraine having evacuated these fighters nonsensically showed footage of Russian buses transporting the now-POWs out of Mariupol!! Anyone with half a brain-cell would see this for what is was - our news media is selling us a pup. A complete load of codswallop; the word "surrender" not mentioned once I recall

Of course, here in the UK, the British State is abit nervous about all this stuff. We have a large contingent of SAS still down in them bunkers still.....

(19-05-2022 15:37 )schvall Wrote:  

(18-05-2022 19:15 )4waydiablo Wrote:  Does 'highly convincing circumstantial proof' have a different meaning in an internet thread then?

It means whatever crankshaft wants it to mean!

The word 'truth' is also being used by crankshaft to mean whatever he wants it to mean.

(19-05-2022 17:17 )tony confederate Wrote:  

(19-05-2022 15:37 )schvall Wrote:  

(18-05-2022 19:15 )4waydiablo Wrote:  Does 'highly convincing circumstantial proof' have a different meaning in an internet thread then?

It means whatever crankshaft wants it to mean!

The word 'truth' is also being used by crankshaft to mean whatever he wants it to mean.

As they say, the first casualty in war is the truth.

The truth lies somewhere in-between the propaganda of both sides in this conflict. Trouble is, we in the west are getting a skewed version of events just as Russian people are. That does not mean that everything in their narrative is bogus - far from it. I do look upon with suspicion Zelensky's PR drive, supported by well-financed top PR agencies.

At the same time, clearly it has always been absurd that Putin claimed this was only a "military operation". It is quite obviously a military conflict, ie. a war.

(19-05-2022 16:46 )crankshaft Wrote:  

(19-05-2022 03:19 )The Silent Majority Wrote:  

(18-05-2022 19:39 )crankshaft Wrote:  The truth is that in the east, the main parts of its forces are immobile and are getting surrounded by Russian forces. And their supply lines are now badly hit by Russia's continued bombardment of roads, railways and military infrastructure, oil depots, military stores ..etc. Perhaps the Pentagon knows this all and that is why Austin initiated the call and asked for a ceasefire.

Any links for these 'truths' you're getting that the rest of us aren't?

Nothing? Not even the Russian news agency?

(19-05-2022 16:46 )crankshaft Wrote:  Well on the BBC, they broadcast Zelensky saying in a press briefing “Ukraine have evacuated the Azov fighters”, and as I said already, then on the news broadcast in the next instance whilst simultaneously repeating this claptrap of Ukraine having evacuated these fighters nonsensically showed footage of Russian buses transporting the now-POWs out of Mariupol!! Anyone with half a brain-cell would see this for what is was - our news media is selling us a pup. A complete load of codswallop; the word "surrender" not mentioned once I recall

Of course it's a surrender. Any fool can see that.

Get a grip. It's just semantics ffs. The Ukrainians can't bring themselves to say the 's' word.