The Ashes and Cricket World Cup Discussion Thread

Anyone who actually thinks England will go in with a 5 man attack is deluded. Whether you think they should or not is irelevant, Flower has constantly stated they will not play a 5 man attack in the absense of a world class all rounder. Despite the WACA defeat, we have again showed we can take 20 wickets with the 4 man attack.
The only changes that need to be considered are to perhaps rest Finn as he is a young man still developing and looked tired in Perth. The other one would be the long term future of Collingwood in test cricket, i would say that after this series it really is time to give either Morgan or Bopara a long run in the side.

(20-12-2010 12:55 )colino Wrote:  I wouldn't change anybody!!

People have to remember that Broad aside (and Tremlett has been fine, btw) this is the same side that got a comfortable draw in the 1st test, and beat the Aussies soundly in the 2nd, why change anyone?

Because Finn's looking a bit tired now and was expensive in the last test, even though he's still taking wickets, that's why. Plus Collingwood has hardly scored any runs in the series, regardless of what the results have been like, that's also why. I personally would stick with Collingwood as I think he could play a big innings at any time, but very few runs in 3 tests means that his position is going to be rightfully questioned.

I can see at the start of next summer them leaving out Collingwood from the test side for someone younger Hildreath or Morgan for me. But for the rest of this series have him drop down to six with Bell in at 5.

Bresnan for Finn is the only change I can see for the next test, for the same reason that mogga just said. But Finn is the leading wicket taker at the minute so in the end I doubt they won't drop him here.

Earlier today there was a stat on SSN that showed that Finn and Swann had gone for the most runs out of both teams, what they didn't say at that point in time that number 3 on the list (Doherty) had gone for a large amount of runs in two games and that Siddle was the most underperforming member of the Aussie bowling attack since that first afternoon.

I still reckon it'll be 2-1 to us

(20-12-2010 19:53 )mogga Wrote:  Anyone who actually thinks England will go in with a 5 man attack is deluded. Whether you think they should or not is irelevant, Flower has constantly stated they will not play a 5 man attack in the absense of a world class all rounder. Despite the WACA defeat, we have again showed we can take 20 wickets with the 4 man attack.
The only changes that need to be considered are to perhaps rest Finn as he is a young man still developing and looked tired in Perth. The other one would be the long term future of Collingwood in test cricket, i would say that after this series it really is time to give either Morgan or Bopara a long run in the side.

It's all well and good dismissing the five man attack but when Strauss under bowls Swann then the workload becomes too much and the end result is bowling 8-10 over spells all day long.Bresnan is the answer as close to an all rounder as we will have who can slot in the lower middle order and do a good job holding up an end which essentially was Broad's job.

(20-12-2010 20:08 )aaron Wrote:  

(20-12-2010 12:55 )colino Wrote:  I wouldn't change anybody!!

People have to remember that Broad aside (and Tremlett has been fine, btw) this is the same side that got a comfortable draw in the 1st test, and beat the Aussies soundly in the 2nd, why change anyone?

Because Finn's looking a bit tired now and was expensive in the last test, even though he's still taking wickets, that's why. Plus Collingwood has hardly scored any runs in the series, regardless of what the results have been like, that's also why. I personally would stick with Collingwood as I think he could play a big innings at any time, but very few runs in 3 tests means that his position is going to be rightfully questioned.

This team by and large has reached the level that it has now through one main attribute...CONTINUITY. Finn tired? possibly, but so long as he's taking wickets i wouldn't question his expense too much. There's been plenty of quick bowlers past and present that have been expensive but wicket takers, Brett Lee for a start just off the top of my head, and if Tait suddenly made himself available again the Aussies would have him in the team in a hot minute, despite probably being the most expensive quick around.

As far as Colly goes his place in the side certainly won't be questioned by anyone that matters, i.e Flower or Strauss. I'm far from his biggest fan, but time and time again he always manages to pull an innings out of the hat when absolutely required, something that those two are more than well aware of. Plus, if we continue with a 4 bowler strategy (as Flower has catergorically stated more than once) his place in the side is even further cemented as a part time bowler.

His catching and fielding's none too shabby either, and that's putting it mildly.

finn is likely to be rested, the batter order from 3-6 looks out of balance if cook or strauss or trott go early. we need a graham thrope/mark butcher style batsman who will bat all day long.

(20-12-2010 23:00 )colino Wrote:  As far as Colly goes his place in the side certainly won't be questioned by anyone that matters, i.e Flower or Strauss. I'm far from his biggest fan, but time and time again he always manages to pull an innings out of the hat when absolutely required, something that those two are more than well aware of. Plus, if we continue with a 4 bowler strategy (as Flower has catergorically stated more than once) his place in the side is even further cemented as a part time bowler.

His catching and fielding's none too shabby either, and that's putting it mildly.

After only 99 runs in his last 9 test innings I don't think Collingwood is undroppable as colino argues. The argument about Colloingwood's bowling and fielding seems a bit desperate and reminds me of what people used to say about Graeme Hick. When runs dried up it was often claimed that since he bowled offspin he was effectively an all rounder and should be kept in the team for that reason. England need 6 front line batsmen and can't afford to carry any passengers in the top 6 so Collingwood's place ought to be questioned. But I expect for now they will stick with him, as despite his poor run he's come good for England often enough in the past. I think they will seriously consider though whether Bell might be better placed at 5 and Collingwood at 6 in the order, although if Prior made runs which he hasn't in this series it wouldn't matter that much anyway.

"England need 6 front line batsmen and can't afford to carry any passengers in the top 6 so Collingwood's place ought to be questioned."

But it won't be. Period.

Strauss and Flower's main strength is that they'll stand by struggling players that have come good for them in the past (i.e Cook) and Colly falls neatly into that catergory. Collingwood's under no more pressure for his place than Cook was before the team flew to Oz. In any case the only possible replacement for Colly is Morgan, who has played next to zero competitive cricket since the team landed. (No way is Bresnan good enough to bat at 6, neither is Prior) Collingwood's had far worse trots in the team over the years and has always hung on to his place. And like it or not, his fielding IS a factor. (Cricket has moved on considerably since the days of Hick, good fielding is now regarded as important as the other two disciplines and rightly so.) We've become a very good fielding side of late, and that is in no small part due to him.

"I think they will seriously consider though whether Bell might be better placed at 5 and Collingwood at 6 in the order, although if Prior made runs which he hasn't in this series it wouldn't matter that much anyway."

With Bell's current good form and Colly's lack of same, this one's a no-brainer. If Finn (our top wicket taker btw) can prove that he's fit enough to play and won't wear out (Swann's workload will increase this test on hopefully a more helpful pitch, thus lessening Finn's load) i expect/hope that the batting order is the only change that's made.

shazhad to be replace finn, if finn is not selected in the team. bell at 5, colly at 6.

one problem i find with england and other test countries its always the same old faces no matter what even if there is a better player in form for their county then wont get picked. england and ecb is old school boys club. moores part of the setup before his appointment and andy flower batting coach at the time.

(23-12-2010 17:06 )bigguy01 Wrote:  one problem i find with england and other test countries its always the same old faces no matter what

Chopping and changing never does any good. Having a settled side helps a great deal. I think the only change for England will be Bresnan for Finn. Anyway, on a statistical note, Australia have won 10 of the past 11 Tests at Melbourne, but South Africa won there 2 years ago.