Scottish Independence (the sequel)

(24-02-2014 16:11 )Doddle Wrote:  

(24-02-2014 14:13 )The Silent Majority Wrote:  If Cameron had been a Scot himself, as Gordon Brown was as PM, he would have had more credibility in a head to head debate.

Gordon would have been slagged off for staying at Westminster, although ISTR Salmond did just that at first, until the Scots Parliament proved to have staying power (or until the SNP realised nobody else in the party has his publicity-seeking qualities).

Yes, I'm not saying Brown would've fared any better, just that Eck couldn't have played the race card.

yeah he does like to paint the scottish people as victims

thats the problem with the no campaign no one has the personailty in fact only 2 scottish politicians who could prob put a good case would be George Galloway or Charles Kennedy. only wish Boris Johnston was scottish

(24-02-2014 15:11 )HannahsPet Wrote:  if labour had won then there would be no independence vote. its only cos the tories won

Agree with this. The SNP's gain has been from the collapse of Labour UK wide.
The SNP only got a majority in the TSP because of tactical voting dishing out punishment against Labour for TB's disastrous foreign wars legacy and then against Pa Broon being economically useless and charisma-free in power; and also because of tactical voting against the Limp Dems - hitherto the natural party of protest for sitters-on-the-fence - for abandoning their principles and many of their manifesto promises in their eagerness to join in the Coalition gravy train. The SNP victory won't have been due to the majority of people positively voting for independence at the last TSP elections. People may want more local control of decisions and different policies from those being pursued at Westminster currently, but they don't necessarily want to split the UK.

Those of us with long memories remember the times when the SNP were called "Tartan Tories" as they were seen to represent the moneyed countryside class; then in the early 1980s they were almost universally blamed for helping to bring in Thatcher by their vote against Lib-Lab govt to bring it down in 1979. Their conversion to a "trendy left of centre party" has been electoral opportunism as "New Labour" started to be perceived as being just as in thrall to The City and "Privatise and Pocket the Profit" PFI fat cats as the Tories ever were (and continue to be, as they dismantle schools and hospitals and hand them over to US and home-grown private interests who just happen to be big donors). But the SNP are just as likely to be prone to splits between "modernisers" and "traditionalists" as Labour ever were, when they find it increasingly difficult to maintain populist "left" spending promises. The only thing that keeps discipline is the hunger for power - but then just look at New Labour to see what happens when that power is attained and then fails to deliver the promises.

(24-02-2014 16:11 )Doddle Wrote:  

(24-02-2014 14:13 )The Silent Majority Wrote:  If Cameron had been a Scot himself, as Gordon Brown was as PM, he would have had more credibility in a head to head debate.

Gordon would have been slagged off for staying at Westminster, although ISTR Salmond did just that at first, until the Scots Parliament proved to have staying power (or until the SNP realised nobody else in the party has his publicity-seeking qualities).

We all know these debates are a sham and waste of time ("I agree with Nick") ...and as for Salmond and publicity - well he's the only one from any of the main parties anyone even vaguely recognises, and he knew it. That was why he saw his chance and scuttled back to Scotland, once the Scottish Parliament had been well established and it had become quite clear it was largely a charisma free zone. All the recognisable ones that could potentially jump ship from Westminster to rival him had gone the way of the Dodo - Ming, Charles Kennedy, John Reid; Donald Dewar and Robin Cook died years ago. Alistair Darling for First Minister anyone ? And the other Scottish parties have just made disastrous choices in their leaders recently. There was a TV show where Rory Bremner stopped people on the street with photos of various TSP members (SNP, Labour, Lib Dem, Tory) and nobody could recognise any of them.
Sturgeon is the only other SNP figurehead anybody could name, but doesn't mean she's liked; Swinney will be a well distant third on the recognition scale, and then you'd be lucky if anybody could pick any of the rest of the Scottish Parliament from any party out of a police line-up, or even summon up a plausible name as an answer for a question on "Pointless". Margo MacDonald may be ?
And these are the people to be entrusted with the destiny of a nation if it votes for independence ?

(24-02-2014 22:27 )HannahsPet Wrote:  yeah he does like to paint the scottish people as victims

thats the problem with the no campaign no one has the personailty in fact only 2 scottish politicians who could prob put a good case would be George Galloway.... only wish Boris Johnston was scottish

brilliant ! No opportunist self-seeking self-publicists there ! At least we'd have no shortage of fuel for the wind turbines !

(24-02-2014 22:27 )HannahsPet Wrote:  thats the problem with the no campaign no one has the personailty in fact only 2 scottish politicians who could prob put a good case would be George Galloway or Charles Kennedy. only wish Boris Johnston was scottish

Hey, we already have one high profile prat, we don't need another

Can you not wish him on the Welsh or something

Says everything when a programme on strippers gets more viewers than an independence debate programme

well was about a club in glasgow

There's a few questions that I'm unsure of if the Scots gain independance.

1. Passports

Will the Scots be issued with there own passports?
Will everyone in Scotland be forced into having a new passport?
What will happen to Scots living in England / Wales or indeed English living in Scotland?

(15-03-2014 13:00 )Charlemagne Wrote:  There's a few questions that I'm unsure of if the Scots gain independance.

1. Passports

Will the Scots be issued with there own passports?
Will everyone in Scotland be forced into having a new passport?
What will happen to Scots living in England / Wales or indeed English living in Scotland?

Yes they will have to have their own passports and any Scottish born person becomes a citizen of an independent Scotland and presumably therefore will need a Scottish passport at whatever cost that is. English living in Scotland will not become Scottish but presumably like Scots in England will only be allowed to stay if the governments agree. Can't rely on EU freedom of movement because of course Scotland won't (at least initially) be an EU member.

(15-03-2014 13:00 )Charlemagne Wrote:  Will the Scots be issued with there own passports?
Will everyone in Scotland be forced into having a new passport?
What will happen to Scots living in England / Wales or indeed English living in Scotland?

UK passports will continue to be valid until they expire. Scots must then apply for a new Scottish passport.

The same applies to Scots living in England and Wales. They will need to apply for a Scottish passport once their existing UK passport expires, unless they are allowed to retain their UK passport under the rules of dual nationality, in which case they may not bother with a Scottish passport.

The English living in Scotland will continue to be UK citizens and would have no need to apply for a Scottish passport, but if they were "habitually resident" in Scotland they could apply for a Scottish passport if they wanted to (and become dual nationals).