Europe, Referendum & Brexit (formerly Europe..IN or OUT??)

(14-11-2018 20:21 )terence Wrote:  so has something happened or not?

Cabinet has supposedly agreed to it but is "split". Which in plain English means it's dead in the water and will slip beneath the waves by Friday lunchtime at the latest.

Watching the news now and it seems that the Government have back her and things have been agreed including keeping the Good Friday agreement intact, the Gibraltar Protocol and other sticking points BUT the caveat is we will still be under the EU customs and laws up to December 2020-that is after we leave the EU in March 2019-this is NOT what was voted for by the British people and this is a huge gamble for May and while the EU are happy, here people will be furious with her and the Government. Should be a very interesting few months to come.

PM's quote

"When you strip away the detail, the choice before us is clear, this deal ....or leave with no deal or no Brexit at all.”

So if as seems likely the deal does not get passed by Parliament AND as is likely Parliament won't accept No Deal then a Peoples Vote may yet be required with the option of the public changing their mind.

May and her cabinet are nothing more than a bunch of quislings and they are going to regret their betrayal.

The one thing that the Conservatives have done is pull the wool over everyone's eyes and stitched up the whole country with the referendum vote and this deal The minute Cameron fucked off as he'd lost the referendum vote, I knew the country would end up with a deal that wouldn't even resemble what the people wanted them to do in the first place. The whole negotiating process has been a fucking shambles from day one and If we do have to vote again I'd still vote how I voted before. I very much hope that if Mrs May loses she is forced to resign and we can vote in a Govt that has the balls to scrap the deal as it stands and walk away with NO DEAL and will have a firm grip on the future destiny of their country without EU to meddle in our affairs once and for all.

Despite her claims to the contrary Teresa May has always been a remainer she just waited until she got Cameron,s job before showing her true colours, her allegiance is to her masters in the EU and not the people of this country.

There is no such thing as The Brexit people voted for. 35% of Labour voters, 30% of Lib Dems & 20% of Greens voted to leave. Nobody cant sit here and tell me that the one fifth of Green voters wanted the same outcome as Farage, JRM, Fox & co. Without those left wing leavers Brexit would not happen. There is not a general consesus in The Tory Party so the idea that there is in the public is just fantasy. Nobody was ever going to be a happy with the deal, an everybody loses scenario was the only possible outcome.

I also completely reject the notion that anyone else could get a better deal. Whether it is PM May, Johnson, Rees-Mogg or Corbyn the only difference would be superficial tweaks because the deal is not based on us, the deal is based on the EU 27 and what they feel is in the best interest of their electorate. They are not going to walk into negotiations and say "Hey it's BoJo!" or "Hey Jezza! All right mate" & magically change their position on things. Any PM would have to trigger A50 which means no matter who is running the show, they would have the same set of circumstances, 2 yrs to negotiate what takes 10 yrs and no matter who is running the show, they will have the same Civil Service who have time and again said this is a mistake. No matter what the deal is, it will be damaging to the economy. The government's own assessments support this



The loss in money shown in the graphic does not include the near £40bn divorce settlement, both of these will have to be covered, either by massive tax hikes, political suicide or more austerity. Given the amount of money that would need to be cut and taking into account the 8 yrs of austerity we have already had, this cannot be achieved without going after ring fenced areas: NHS, Education & pensions. It's not fear mongering, it's Maths.

No deal is better than a bad deal. No deal is the worst deal and a bad deal is the best deal

There are lies, damned lies and then there are statistics such as the above, complete bollocks without a shred of proof.

So Northern Ireland and Gibraltar get special deals, but in the 585 pages of the draft agreement Scotland doesn't even get mentioned.

The whole notion as you say it that 'no one else could get a better deal ' would ultimately depend on how closely aligned or how far apart you want to be with the EU.There are two trade deals on the table the Norway & the Canada Model which involve a different relationship but Theresa May's problem is that she always assumed she could cook up her own.
Of the 570+ pages of the Withdrawal Agreement only 7 of those give reference to any future trade deal.The truth is Theresa May has either naively or deliberately (I suspect the latter) conned Leave voters & Leave supporting MP's by constantly trotting out the 'We'll be leaving the single market & the custom union' line to purely buy time & at pretty much the last minute cooks up some sort of mish-mash deal that will lock us into the custom union pretty much indefinitely & looking at the minutia of this half-baked deal suggests any future trade deal negotiated will require us to remain in the cu (what the EU wanted out of this all along preventing us being a trade competitor).If political manifesto's meant anything both Labour & the Tories stood on the platform of leaving both the single market & customs union & more importantly they both pledged to respect the result of the 2016 EU referendum (which kind of sounds like no 2nd vote).And any leave voters who voted Lib Dem's or Greens sounds like a walking,Talking contradiction in itself to me.

A Remain backing PM supported by an even staunch remaining chancellor & remain civil servants headed by europhile Olly Robbins navigating a Brexit divorce deal was always going to lead to a Hokey-Cokey Brexit but being more in the EU than out. Anyone with any sort of acumen of negotiation would know you have to be prepared to walk out of a deal if it isn't suitable but the fact that Theresa May actively held out the begging bowl to the EU & a complete twat of a Chancellor who not only failed to prepare for a no-deal but failed to see any corolation that everytime he talked the country down the pound drops in value.And with regards to these so-called Government Statistics (who are pretty much wrong on every prediction they have ever made) is pure guess-work nothing else.

And the fact we now have 3 ex PM's all advocating a 'People's (Keep having a Referendum to get the right result) Vote' where 3 of the most ardent pro-eu hanger's on who didn't give a toss about the people in this country when they signed off the Maastrict & Lisbon Treaties.And when the Guardian talk about Gordon Brown as a political giant for wanting a 2nd vote (what that shit-rag have always wanted) the same guy who sold the countries gold for knock-down prices,raided pensions,brought in PFI contracts in hospitals,bailed out the banks in the 2008 crash without regulating them. Give me a fucking break.