Europe, Referendum & Brexit (formerly Europe..IN or OUT??)

(04-02-2016 20:49 )M-L-L Wrote:  The 1950s and early 1960s in UK were years of relatively full employment, consu......

This seems subjective to me and doesn't cover all explanations.

It seems to be saying post war austerity was somehow over exaggerated, for people of my age who had parents brought up in that time they didn't think so.

Was 'Full employemet' more to do with mostly men being the work force and a lot less imigration and a lot having been killed in the war, plus emigration? Back them woman were mainly at home still. So there were more jobs for men to pick from?

There were more motorways and so on, but was this more to do with cost being cheaper, lack of minimum wage back then and people had to take what they could get not what they wanted. I think it's why Poles get employed a lot now, cheap and good workers.

Was a lot of Britians industry in decline becasue of cheaper imports, rather than poor British products? The coal industry was whiped out due to cheap imports and alternative fuel, apparently there's still 400 years worth of coal under the uk so a miner told me one day. Why buy more expensive UK goods when it's cheaper from abroad. Even now the cheap (and inferior) tomatoes at sainsburys are from abroad, the more exspensive from the UK.

Isn't it ironic that the bulk of Britians empire wealth would have gone to America for resources which then was used to rebuild the 'enemy'?

I was under the impression UK designed a lot of classic world class cars in those times including the mini. What German, French and Japanease cars were about in the UK in the 50's/ 60's? From what i remember back then it was the unions that were the problem (remeber the TV show rag trade? Everybody out!) thats why thatcher had to destroy them. Even now, the lowest income familes are living more like middle or even upper ones back then now the unions are no longer.

Maybe the wind rush and Powell are a little exaggerated and are nothing like the numbers arriving today. You wouldn't hear anyone with a foreign accent or even see visually ethnic people (cept resturants) around here. I live in a very small town in the peak and jobs in the job centre are few and far between. Yet every other shop I go in now there is someone with bearly a grasp of English working there and quite a few visually enthic people are about now and that's pretty much in the last 3 years or so, so it shows just how large a number of people are entering. It's also pretty clear immigrants are being given prefferential treatment and jumping the jobs and housing queues, that said, the ones working are paying their taxes also. Immigration is not in itself a problem it's the balance, back then it wouldn't have been an issue at all, now it clearly is.

I could go on, but it's pretty clear to me a lot of the ROOT cause you out lined are down to two world wars, national debt, cheap imports rather than it being UK's own fault for being terrible. Plus a national identity crisis that is still being felt.

It really is no coincident that before ww 1 the UK was the most powerful greatest country the planet had ever seen, thats not jingoism it's just a plain fact. After the second world war there was a rapid decline in the UK to be replaced by the US, you might think this is purely a coincident but I don't.

(04-02-2016 20:57 )wackawoo Wrote:  Have never heard of learning from history?

There's nothing in that responce that counters my point.

You mean you're not persuaded by my winning way with a metaphor? Here's another one, then: leaving Europe to supposedly solve an immigration crisis is like smashing your own house down just to get rid of a few moths.

In fact, you know what - let's just agree to disagree, right?

(04-02-2016 17:33 )schvall Wrote:  I think you're both wrong. The last I heard the question was going to be "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"

To which you can't answer yes or no.

Correct. It's not yes or no, it's remain or leave.

(05-02-2016 07:58 )Doddle Wrote:  You mean you're not persuaded by my winning way with a metaphor? Here's another one, then: leaving Europe to supposedly solve an immigration crisis is like smashing your own house down just to get rid of a few moths.

In fact, you know what - let's just agree to disagree, right?

As I said in my previous post, immigration isn't a problem as such, it's the balance. Britian is a small, over croweded Island in a recession with unemployment in the indigineous population; it's a practicle thing.

Yes, I have read where Germany are welcoming immigrants with open arms - that is, the professional skilled ones that can add to the economy, the rest they send over to the UK.

You're too busy looking for things to disagree with me about.

(05-02-2016 13:31 )wackawoo Wrote:  As I said in my previous post, immigration isn't a problem as such, it's the balance. Britian is a small, over croweded Island in a recession with unemployment in the indigineous population; it's a practicle thing.

As a descendant of immigrants (admittedly a few centuries down the line), I don't see immigration as the problem - integration is the problem.

(05-02-2016 13:41 )Doddle Wrote:  As a descendant of immigrants (admittedly a few centuries down the line), I don't see immigration as the problem - integration is the problem.

So why you dwelling on it?

Intergration happens in time, Britian always makes people British with added bonuses of their own culteral heritage, ie indian and chinease resturants.

But there is a massive rise disproportional to emigration. All these people hope to find jobs and in the meantime need feeding. you can't have an open doors policy for purely practicle reasons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_imm...ed_Kingdom

http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk...k-overview

Foreign-born people constituted 39% of Inner London’s population in 2013 (the highest share among all regions with comparable data). - Nearly half of the population of inner London are not British born, that is a huge amount. And it's also where the benefit hand outs are greater than the rest of the UK with London weighting.

To be quite honest, I'm just fed up.

(05-02-2016 13:30 )Tutankamon Wrote:  Correct. It's not yes or no, it's remain or leave.

Here's the ballot paper.

with Brussells telling davey boy they will not vote on any changes.. until AFTER we vote...if you think they can trust them vote remain...
if like me you think 95% of politicians are lying scumbags out to line their own pockets

VOTE OUT

(16-02-2016 13:13 )cwpussylover Wrote:  if like me you think 95% of politicians are lying scumbags out to line their own pockets

I think the figure is a bit higher than that

The last man to enter Parliament with good intentions was Guy Fawkes.