Formula 1

Totally agree bgbug, they should be allowed to race but unfortunately formula 1 isnt like that anymore, its more about the constructers, team orders, tactics preserving the engines for future races, and the fact that they were told to bring the cars home and not to push, a mark webber was told that vettel wasnt going to over take him, and vettel totally disobeyed the team, and over took him. webber on many occasions has been told not to over take vettel, and he has listened, how can mark webber, and the team trust vettel in the future.

(25-03-2013 21:55 )BgLugs Wrote:  I understand what you're saying Fernandez but his employers are disrespecting the fans who pay hundreds of pounds to see the races and they aren't genuine. It's in comparison to going to a concert and the singers miming

So your saying if you owned Red Bull would you want your 2 drivers racing each other that hard there was a danger of them crashing into each other? Racing is also a team sport so I think it's important to work as part of a team, how many times has webber been sacrifised to give vettel the advantage? he follows orders even though it's clear he doesn't really want too because he's doing what the team wants him too so vettel should do the same...

So your saying if you owned Red Bull would you want your 2 drivers racing each other that hard there was a danger of them crashing into each other?
Remember McLaren last season

There have been calls for him to be suspended for 1 race but I doubt they will, as it might cost them valuable constructors points.
A slap on the wrist is pointless, though, as he'll still have the win and the points.

It's also worth considering Webber would probably have been pushing harder if he knew he was racing Vettel and Vettel maybe only got close enough to take him on because of the team orders.

(25-03-2013 21:55 )BgLugs Wrote:  I understand what you're saying Fernandez but his employers are disrespecting the fans who pay hundreds of pounds to see the races and they aren't genuine. It's in comparison to going to a concert and the singers miming

The fans are irrelevant. Christian Horner and the team are there to deliver the Constructor's championship for RedBull racing. Vettel's Driver's title ambitions are secondary to that aim.

He was instructed by his Team Principal to hold station as they had maximum constructor's points in the bag, he chose to ignore that instruction and the prospect of a repeat of their crash in Turkey in 2010 was a very real possibility. The fact that Webber did as requested and chose not to defend is to his credit.

The fact that Horner said, on an open channel at the end of the race that "explanations are required" is a good indication of how far Vettel has overstepped the mark. Horner has always refused to criticise him in public in the past.

Vettel has only won his titles for the past few years because he has been in the best car.

He wants to be careful or he could get replaced by an equally talented driver who hasn't got a hearing problem
(also hope that Webber gave him a good kicking after the race)

I agree that when vettels set up hasnt been to his liking he really struggles in the car, he is a good driver but he has being given the best tools to become the 3 time world champion, compare that to michael schumacher, and alonso last season, who at times have driven in poor ferrari cars but have managed to get the best out of the car, i think alonso is way better than vettel.

(25-03-2013 22:45 )marco01 Wrote:  I agree that when vettels set up hasnt been to his liking he really struggles in the car, he is a good driver but he has being given the best tools to become the 3 time world champion, compare that to michael schumacher, and alonso last season, who at times have driven in poor ferrari cars but have managed to get the best out of the car, i think alonso is way better than vettel.

I altered my opinion of Alonso after his performance in what was a dog of a Ferrari last year. His shenanigans at McLaren & Renault still leave a bitter taste though.

He was in it up to his neck in both "Spygate" and "Crashgate" and got away with it. They don't call him Teflonso for no reason.

Vettel wouldn't be a 3 time champion without Adrian Newey.

Yeh defo down to adrian newey, its no coincidence when he moved to red bull they starting to win trophys, and maclaren stopped, to be the best team you need the best drivers, best engineers, and technical people, designers etc.

(25-03-2013 22:32 )Tumble_Drier Wrote:  ...
The fact that Horner said, on an open channel at the end of the race that "explanations are required" is a good indication of how far Vettel has overstepped the mark. Horner has always refused to criticise him in public in the past.

I believe it was Vettels race engineer that made that comment not Horner, though he was critical in his comments after the race.

Gary Anderson's column on the BBC website is always worth a read, he is one of the most insightful writers with his vast knowledge and experience.
He makes a good point about the difference between the situation with Mercedes and Red Bull, and the respect shown to the team principals. At Mercedes you have Ross Brawn, a man who turned Ferarri into a dominant force in F1 for years, and under his own name, turned his current team into a title winning side. He commands ultimate respect, and when he comes on the radio and says 'this is what we are doing' the drivers listen.
From the radio communications we heard, he made it absolutely clear to Rosberg to hold position, that Lewis was being held back hence he was slower, and that he was NOT to overtake.
Christian Horner by comparison, came on the radio saying 'come on Seb this is silly'. No command or instruction to hold position, more of a desparate plea to please do as I say. He left room for Seb to do as he did and claim he wasn't clear he shouldn't do it. It really calls into question Horners leadership of that team and how much control does he really have over the likes of Vettel.

The whole question of team orders come into the spotlight again, but like it or not, F1 is a team sport, always has been. I remember the days when the teams took 3 cars to every race, with the spare car being setup to suit one driver or the other in case they had to change. Whichever driver had the spare setup for them was clearly favoured that weekend, and yet it was perfectly legitimate and every team did it.
F1 has become far more technical now than ever before, and the actual racing is secondary to the technical aspects of preserving engines, protecting tyres etc, it's all about passing people in pit-stops rather than on the track. If you want out and out racing watch Nascar or something, 'cos F1 ain't the place anymore.