The Freeview vs Sky content debate

vila Wrote:

SxciiSooky Wrote:really? does 3 or 4 members really constitute 'several'?

Yes. Dictionary definitions of several: ‘more than two but less than many’, ’three or more’. I know of at least five.

with my emphasis on the word 'really' my point was is it really a substantial enough number? and considering most of the 'cellcast' employees on here are way low down on the chain to carry little if any power to change etc, does it really matter? is here really the place to be challenging them on issues rather than through their proper channels?

vila Wrote:This is based on the fact that those who do post with regard to the content usually do so to complain about the watered-down nature of Freeview compared with Sky (limited time girl is topless, lack of any kind of erotic movement or activity, lack of interaction between girls, lack of oil/cream etc). I know of no post that actually approves the weakened content. Likewise there are very few posts which disagree with those criticising the weaker content other than those who defend the lack of topless content from the likes of Paige and Toya and I happen to agree with this - quality can come in different forms and the quality delivered by those two is in no way lessened by the lack of naked breasts (although I’m sure most of us would enjoy at least occasional glimpses).

but those who do post are still very much in the minority in terms of the numbers represented by forum membership. Have you ever thought that the reason people aren't arguing the opposite on here could have more to do with recent clashes of opinion on this forum causing problems, rather than it being that nobody disagrees with your viewpoint on freeview? plenty of people don't vote in the general elections, yet have problems and issues with the government. but does their opinion not count just because they don't take part in the process? ignoring the majority of people in order to only use the minority numbers of people actively involved in a debate is never a wise way to gauge opinion. not everyone likes getting involved in arguments/debates. but that doesn't mean they don't have opinions etc. also, having read through the thread, there are people stating that they don't have a problem with the freeview service offered. using ur logic for number generating, i could simply declare that they are the majority, as you have no evidence to prove me wrong, other than your feeling and hope in order to satisfy your want.

vila Wrote:Nobody, nor would I ever represent myself as such. If/when I complain to Ofcom it will be as an individual who objects to the fact that Cellcast don’t provide the same quality of service for me on Freeview as they do for their Sky viewers.

so if it is as an individual you would complain, why the need to drum up support on here?

vila Wrote:I only need the evidence of my own eyes. The statement contained in the message was such an obvious lie, and would be recognised as such by everyone in this forum, that I was astonished that anyone would utter it.

i do not have the details so i could not comment.

vila Wrote:I trust that the site admin have taken steps to verify this.

i'm not 100% sure on this but i haven't been aware of any form of 'check' being done, namely it has kinda been taken at their word, or people have just assumed that they are by their usernames.

vila Wrote:Er, no actually, otherwise why would Sky viewers complain about the drop in quality they witness as soon as Freeview starts?

Er, actually, because the pre, during and post freeview show have pretty much been brought into line with each other to the point where there is very little difference between the 2

the problem, in all honesty, isn't the quality of the service being broadcast, but is really a case of the daygirls doing night shifts have been starting after midnight (when freeview starts) so you often end up with a show where there is a girl not showing tits. But generally speaking, you get plenty of tits shown on the freeview show, just as much as the sky show in all honesty (if you want to argue the alternative, then you have to accept that it is merely your opinion, not absolute fact).

in all honesty - if you're that bothered, why not just get sky? otherwise why continuing moaning and complaining about it? it's on freeview....it's free....what's the big issue? you get what you pay for...you pay nothing yet expect some kind of extra service

even if there was a difference in the service that is broadcast....do you not think that perhaps those that pay to have a sky subscription deserve to have something a bit better for that extra cost than those who have the cheap alternative of freeview?

but as i said, you're getting pretty girls showing you their tits for free....what really is the big issue? if it's not good enough for you, why not search for porn online?

is it really worth making such a big deal over, especially the whole going to ofcom thing. what exactly would be the point? what exactly do you think the end result is gonna be? it's not gonna make the show any more raunchy, it will probably just make the whole thing get toned down.
relax and just enjoy what's on offer

EDIT: either way - tits out at midnight, even if it doesn't meet with your absolute wants, is still a hell of a lot better than no tits out at 3am on pp

vila Wrote:Worse still, the only answer I've received - in a PM - was an outright lie. (Question to moderators: am I allowed to publish the contents of that PM to show that I'm telling the truth?)

I received the following reply from admin regarding posting pm details

Private messages are private between the respective parties, so therefore any private message should not be posted in the forum without the agreement of the person who sent it.

vila Wrote:What else can we do? Ofcom are the arbiters of programme content and we have a complaint about programme content.

These are the 10 grounds on which you can complain to Ofcom about programme content:

1: Protecting the Under-18s
2: Harm or Offence caused
3: Crime
4: Religion
5: Due Impartiality and Due Accuracy and Undue Prominence of Views and Opinions
6: Influencing Elections and Referendums
7: Fairness
8: Privacy
9: Sponsorship
10: Commercial References

Which one of these did you have in mind?

vila Wrote:It's not as if they're being asked for anything they're not prepared to provide, they already provide it - for Sky. All they have to do is give Freeview the same as what they give Sky.

They already give Freeview the same as Sky. What's broadcast on Freeview is identical to what's shown on Sky - the same programme exactly. Anyone who has both Freeview and Sky and switches between the two will easily see that it's the same programme.

Just better action on Sky b4 12am. Well it used to be. Couple of nights back, Toya finished off the freeview show with a ten minute slot (wtf 10 mins, more night girl preferential treatment). Well on the sky show from 5am, we were treated (sarcasm) to a two girl combo of Megan and Donna on one phone. Show started with both girls saying that now Freeview has finished, the rest of he show will be pure filth. So does that mean the sex chat is also watered down on freeview? The chat may have been filth but in terms of viewable content, no boobs came out, Donna was humping the bed while lying on her front and Megan removed and put her shoe back on. (I have started to sound like the watcher. lol). So what are you really missing? Dionne was slightly better last night. Looked very sexy in a shirt and had nipples on display. BS1 is a lame show. BS2 is not. Still get some good content with the likes of Camilla and Dionne.

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Josh Wrote:BS1 is a lame show. BS2 is not.

I agree - I far prefer the BS2 show

If my fave girls are on BS1 then great, at least I'm seeing them

But if they are on BS2 then I know it's gonna be a good show as there's more freedom there

Josh Wrote:Just better action on Sky b4 12am. Well it used to be.

And yeah, this is my point. There used to be a difference, but now the pre and post freeview shows are little if at all different from the freeview show. It's like, in order to ensure they don't break any broadcasting rules, they have to be in warm up mode for the entire night before it goes to freeview so as to ensure there are no slip ups - such as saying "cheeky" all the time now, whereas before they would quite happily say "dirty", "filthy", "naughty" etc.
So I really don't see what big differences the non sky viewers think they are missing. Any changes in content etc have nothing to do with it being sky or freeview, but simply the specific girls being used and what they are likely to do

SxciiSooky Wrote:with my emphasis on the word 'really' my point was is it really a substantial enough number? and considering most of the 'cellcast' employees on here are way low down on the chain to carry little if any power to change etc, does it really matter? is here really the place to be challenging them on issues rather than through their proper channels?

Obviously I have no way of knowing for certain but what little I do know of this sort of operation suggests that the Cellcast outfit isn’t particularly large, in which case five might be a reasonable sample. I’ll be quite happy to acknowledge misjudgement if anyone knows more detail. Their position in the chain of command isn’t really relevant to my reason for mentioning them. The point I was making is that if these are genuine Cellcast people there are at least five routes by which the criticism and dissatisfaction expressed in this forum can be relayed to the people who matter, who could in turn feed answers back.

In any case, as I said, we know for a fact that they monitor the forum in the studio while the show is on air, so they know exactly what is being said about their product.

As the possible consequences of an Ofcom complaint have already been pointed out I would have thought that those in charge would prefer to sort out the grievances of disgruntled punters on an informal basis rather than risk an almighty Ofcom spotlight being trained on them and possibly the entire phone channel community.

SxciiSooky Wrote:but those who do post are still very much in the minority in terms of the numbers represented by forum membership. Have you ever thought that the reason people aren't arguing the opposite on here could have more to do with recent clashes of opinion on this forum causing problems, rather than it being that nobody disagrees with your viewpoint on freeview? plenty of people don't vote in the general elections, yet have problems and issues with the government. but does their opinion not count just because they don't take part in the process? ignoring the majority of people in order to only use the minority numbers of people actively involved in a debate is never a wise way to gauge opinion. not everyone likes getting involved in arguments/debates. but that doesn't mean they don't have opinions etc. also, having read through the thread, there are people stating that they don't have a problem with the freeview service offered. using ur logic for number generating, i could simply declare that they are the majority, as you have no evidence to prove me wrong, other than your feeling and hope in order to satisfy your want.

I think you defeat your own argument. As you say, lots of people don’t vote in elections and the issue is decided by those who do, no matter how small their number. Those who don’t vote are deemed to be prepared to accept whatever outcome results. I don’t know what clashes of opinion you are referring to that might deter people from expressing their views. Nobody has to get into an argument to express an opinion, they can say what they want to say and leave. I can only say that I can’t recall anyone saying they are satisfied with the current Freeview programming. All I’m saying is that the debate in this forum if translated into a vote for and against the content currently provided on Freeview would turn out heavily against.

SxciiSooky Wrote:so if it is as an individual you would complain, why the need to drum up support on here?

I’m not drumming up support - I’m taking part in a debate, which I didn’t even start. Big Boobies started off this particular round of discussion and matt38 joined in before I did.

SxciiSooky Wrote:

vila Wrote:I trust that the site admin have taken steps to verify this.

i'm not 100% sure on this but i haven't been aware of any form of 'check' being done, namely it has kinda been taken at their word, or people have just assumed that they are by their usernames.

Then we have to assume they’re genuine until and unless it’s proved otherwise.

SxciiSooky Wrote:Er, actually, because the pre, during and post freeview show have pretty much been brought into line with each other to the point where there is very little difference between the 2

I’ve already stated that I know for absolute fact that this isn’t true. We’ve already discussed elsewhere one instance of Amanda’s performance before and after the 5am Freeview shutdown. Whether or not you were responsible for her behaviour, as you claim, is immaterial: the fact of the matter is that the change in her behaviour took place immediately after the 5am FV shutdown and there is no way, even with her record for kicking over the traces, that she would have acted like that before 5am. Camilla similarly sprang in to action after 5am either that night or the next.

SxciiSooky Wrote:the problem, in all honesty, isn't the quality of the service being broadcast, but is really a case of the daygirls doing night shifts have been starting after midnight (when freeview starts) so you often end up with a show where there is a girl not showing tits. But generally speaking, you get plenty of tits shown on the freeview show, just as much as the sky show in all honesty (if you want to argue the alternative, then you have to accept that it is merely your opinion, not absolute fact).

The problem has nothing to do with the day girls - it has existed since Ch 33 started, long before any of the day girls came on. There is far more naked skin and explicit action on Sky-only BS1 than on Freeview BS1. That is not a matter of my opinion - it is observable fact.

SxciiSooky Wrote:in all honesty - if you're that bothered, why not just get sky? otherwise why continuing moaning and complaining about it? it's on freeview....it's free....what's the big issue? you get what you pay for...you pay nothing yet expect some kind of extra service

even if there was a difference in the service that is broadcast....do you not think that perhaps those that pay to have a sky subscription deserve to have something a bit better for that extra cost than those who have the cheap alternative of freeview?

Why should I line Murdoch’s pockets to receive programming which is supposed to be FREE? Sky list them as ‘Free-to-air’ but apparently still have the cheek to require you to buy a Sky subscription before you can receive them.

SxciiSooky Wrote:but as i said, you're getting pretty girls showing you their tits for free....what really is the big issue? if it's not good enough for you, why not search for porn online?

I have all the porn I need, thank you.

SxciiSooky Wrote:is it really worth making such a big deal over, especially the whole going to ofcom thing. what exactly would be the point? what exactly do you think the end result is gonna be? it's not gonna make the show any more raunchy, it will probably just make the whole thing get toned down.

Since you’re quite keen on pointing out what you think is just my opinion, I have to point out that this is just your opinion.

SxciiSooky Wrote:EDIT: either way - tits out at midnight, even if it doesn't meet with your absolute wants, is still a hell of a lot better than no tits out at 3am on pp

This I cannot disagree with!!!

SxciiSooky Wrote:

Josh Wrote:BS1 is a lame show. BS2 is not.

I agree - I far prefer the BS2 show

If my fave girls are on BS1 then great, at least I'm seeing them

But if they are on BS2 then I know it's gonna be a good show as there's more freedom there

Josh Wrote:Just better action on Sky b4 12am. Well it used to be.

And yeah, this is my point. There used to be a difference, but now the pre and post freeview shows are little if at all different from the freeview show. It's like, in order to ensure they don't break any broadcasting rules, they have to be in warm up mode for the entire night before it goes to freeview so as to ensure there are no slip ups - such as saying "cheeky" all the time now, whereas before they would quite happily say "dirty", "filthy", "naughty" etc.
So I really don't see what big differences the non sky viewers think they are missing. Any changes in content etc have nothing to do with it being sky or freeview, but simply the specific girls being used and what they are likely to do

All of this simply supports what I’ve been saying. BS1 and 2 used to be more or less similar but BS1 is being steadily degraded BECAUSE IT IS NOW SHOWN ON FREEVIEW. If pre-12am content is a little tamer it is still stronger than post-12am and would explain why there is often (but as I said, not always) a much greater difference when the girls are finally freed of their shackles after 5am.

BarrieBF Wrote:These are the 10 grounds on which you can complain to Ofcom about programme content:

1: Protecting the Under-18s
2: Harm or Offence caused
3: Crime
4: Religion
5: Due Impartiality and Due Accuracy and Undue Prominence of Views and Opinions
6: Influencing Elections and Referendums
7: Fairness
8: Privacy
9: Sponsorship
10: Commercial References

Which one of these did you have in mind?

2. I am grossly offended by being treated as a second-class citizen.

7. I am entitled to receive the same standard of programming from a free-to-air channel that a Sky viewer receives.

BarrieBF Wrote:They already give Freeview the same as Sky. What's broadcast on Freeview is identical to what's shown on Sky - the same programme exactly. Anyone who has both Freeview and Sky and switches between the two will easily see that it's the same programme.

You are (deliberately?) misunderstanding me. I’m talking about (as I’m sure you know) the difference in the strength of material shown within the Freeview period and that shown outside of it.

In any case, you are wrong – you should pay more atention. Here’s a snip from one of my posts a couple of nights ago:

Quote:Edit: On the other hand, just to remind us that it is still Freeview, we've just had another utterly ludricrous example of Freeview censorship. Camilla and Jodie were introducing their picture promos and Camilla said her pictures were nude. Jodies pictures came through OK but Camilla was disappointed to see that hers went out on Sky but not Freeview.

A small example, I grant, but proving that Cellcast can, and do, send out different material simultaneously to the two platforms. There are many occasions now when the screen shows only the girls on the sofa and the girl performing on the bed isn’t visible on screen at all (not even in the box at top right. This didn’t happen when the channel first started but has increased in frequency since I first noticed it. Coincidentally with noticing this situation I’ve also noticed some of the girls glancing sideways at the monitors seemingly more frequently than they used to. Say I’ve got a paranoiacly suspicious mind if you like. I will be only too pleased to be shown that this deviousness is a figment of my imagination, because if true it real would be one step too far in deception.

Seriously vila - you have far too much time on your hands

And I really cannot be bothered entering into a 'discussion' over a matter that you are basing a lot of your facts on suposition.

If you are that bothered about it then go and complain - but seriously, stop bleating on about it filling up page after page of the exact same stuff.

But as someone who owns both sky and freeview and watches on both - I do not agree with your assessment.

There are also plenty of others who disagree with you, but you have already dismissed them in an earlier post by saying there aren't any posts that disagree - look through the thread and you will see there are.

But please, either complain or don't complain - just please do something other than carrying on the same 'discussion'

EDIT: Also, after finally skimming through your post (as I really cannot be bothered reading such a long drawn out post over such a trivial matter), yes - all of what I have written is my opinion - but I have never tried to claim it is anything else. You're the person claiming certain things are absolute fact. There are no absolute facts in opinion.
I have no problem with the freeview broadcast - you do (and will never change my opinion as I very obviously look for different things than you in my channels).

vila Wrote:2. I am grossly offended by being treated as a second-class citizen.

7. I am entitled to receive the same standard of programming from a free-to-air channel that a Sky viewer receives.

Well no.2 won't work, because complaints under that heading, harm and offence, usually need to show that there was excessive sex or violence in the programme, or racism or other hatred. You're saying the programme wasn't strong enough, lol, which is opposite, so I think you're sunk on that one.

No.7 won't work either. Complaints under this heading, unfairness, need to show that the complainant was featured in the programme content in an unfair way. Have you been featured on Babestation?

Perhaps you should complain about Bang Babes or Hotel Voyeur instead, as those channels don't give you ANYTHING on freeview.

I guess I should have put a smiley or two in there eh?