Scottish Independence (the sequel)

(09-09-2014 17:17 )HannahsPet Wrote:  Thats bollocks labour would have still won the last 3 they won but with smaller majorities

Charmer It's not my observation it is just something I read. Unlike yourself I do not have inside information on the make up of the votes cast. I just read stuff in the paper. Lol You should run for office

Fuck me just watching Reporting Scotland and guess what, nothing happened up here in our neck of the woods, no news to report, no criminal activity whatsoever.

So instead we are having an entire hour devoted to Scottish Independence. I must admit as the 18th draws closer the tension is at boiling point, I'd imagine David Cameron and co are having countless sleepless nights, I'd go as far to say that he and his colleagues are bricking it. Panic visits up to Scotland and emergency meetings with the Queen has taken place the past week.

If the vote is yes David Cameron for starters will probably be forced into stepping down as PM.

If we gain Independence then the English will have nobody else to blame but themselves, Tories defecting to UKIP, not to mention that The Labour Party has lost all it's identity as it no longer represents the ordinary man on the street.

Mr Cameron is going to have to offer the people of Scotland something extraordinary or else he'll be held to account for the break up of the United Kingdom.

I'd still vote No, if I was eligible, but listening to the news this morning & yesterday, I just think "please God vote Yes"

I'll give Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon some dues - they do seem to be quick off the draw with statistics and charismatic arguments to sway undecided voters their way.

Trouble is - I still have not seen a compelling argument for it despite their commendable efforts to promise that independence is better for the whole of Britain, not just Scotland. I think it's only natural that David Cameron, Ed Miliband, Nick Clegg and probably even Nigel Farage would be worried about the prospect of losing so much of the share of this country's electorate.

If it is a yes vote though, I can only see so many problems trying to divide up the assets of Scotland and the rest of the UK, especially with so many of Scotland's treasury generating money from businesses with headquarters in England. I just don't think they'd have enough resources to go it alone - they keep mentioning the oil reserves in the North Sea, but is that not British Petroleum (BP) ? Therefore, Scotland would only be able to claim a small share of that oil - the other countries of the UK would have the rest of the share, would they not? I can't see that being enough to fund an independent country. It's been said in no uncertain terms that an independent Scotland cannot have the pound, and without a recognized currency it would be virtually impossible to join the EU and therefore, NATO too.

But I echo other members comments in that I want it to be over now, one way or another. It's all we hear about when Syria, Ukraine and Iraq aren't the talking points in the news.

Yes the arguments over who owns what should the vote be yes will be bigger than anything we've read on this forum

Without the Scottish votes in the last General election Cameron and his tory party would have had a working majority without having to rely on the Lib Dems... He only wants to keep us a part of this brilliant union of nations because the oil is in Scottish waters.

BP Wrote:Clair
Clair, the first fixed platform in the
west of Shetland area, started
producing in 2005. With an estimated
eight billion barrels of oil in place, it
is the largest oilfield in Europe. The
field was discovered in 1977, but it
was only with significant advances in
technology and innovative
engineering that the first phase of
development was made possible.
Clair Ridge, the £4.5 billion second
phase of development, was
confirmed in late 2011 and will see
two new platforms installed and
production starting in 2016. In 2013,
a major appraisal drilling programme
began to help define a possible third
phase of development for Clair.

This article is the best summary I've seen of just why there is so much disillusionment with left of centre voters in Scotland with the left wing "Vote No" camp :

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree...f-all-hope

If Gordon Brown is the best answer to the question then the Union is in big trouble.

New Labour were in power for over a decade and what they did and also what they failed to do in all that time is now blowing up in their faces.

Instead of using their position in power and large majorities to argue their case for public spending...they basically tried a massive confidence trick in the form of PFI ; a ridiculously complex "Tax Credit" system to help big business justify paying less than the living wage to working families and not have them starve to death or be evicted in massive numbers; compounded with stealth privatisation of essential services to make the balance sheets look good and called all this "reform" : and all basically opening the door further on socially retrogressive policies which the Tories have been only to happy to kick even wider open on their return to power.

Oh and let's not forget a highly successful "War on Terror"...that seems to be going well.

And Labour can't argue with it now..all they can whinge is "You're cutting too fast...you're being too nasty..we'd micromanage around the edges with the same basic right wing policies with some populist guff about Energy Caps and stuff which will never be enforceable but we hope you'll like us better as we try not to look so nasty as we're doing it".

If Labour think that the Yes vote is gaining traction purely on hate of the Tories/UKIP at Westminster then they should take a good look at themselves....


But on the other hand...all those Yes Voters thinking Slick 'Eck is going to usher in a communitarian socialist paradise are in for a rude awakening - the same "cyborgs in suits" are the very ones he's courting with promises of corporation tax cuts and all the rest. For big business the message will very much be business as usual..how can it be anything else without risking a massive investment flight from the country ...which is already on the cards with all the unconvincing currency posturing.

Let's not also forget his cosying up to Murdoch.

In this respect he's not too dissimilar to Boris Johnson's "all things to all people" populist façade being presented to London voters - and God help us -no doubt nationwide once Boris gets back into the Westminster Parliament. But at some point you have to start carrying out policies that can't please all the competing self-interests....and that's when the Velux gets messy...

You have to admire the Royal Family though. Nothing like a pregnancy to stir up a bit of over-emotional patriotism. Must have been the most politically well-timed shag in history!

(10-09-2014 19:58 )Sm© Wrote:  Without the Scottish votes in the last General election Cameron and his tory party would have had a working majority without having to rely on the Lib Dems... He only wants to keep us a part of this brilliant union of nations because the oil is in Scottish waters.

The oil might be in Scottish waters - but it's a British (ie UK) company that controls and runs it - British Petroleum as I mentioned above. It's not a case of wanting to keep us a part of the union because of the oil, surely it doesn't matter a jot where the oil is, I would have thought it's more important that it's a United Kingdom company that runs it - if Scotland are no longer part of the United Kingdom, then they will not and cannot claim majority bragging rights to an oil reserve which is their best shot at funding their independence. In fact if they vote for independence they'd lose most of that asset.

I think it was an interesting and desperate plea that David Cameron made to the Scottish people. It's been noted that he was close to tears and what I found extraordinary about this conference was that for the first time in his career he spoke more like an actual person and less like a politician, I especially liked that part where he says in the next General election you want to get rid of the effing Tories then fair enough we'll think again

It's also been pointed out that his party statistically stands a better chance of winning the next General Election without Scotland but he has apparently put the Union far more higher than his party.

I wonder if the meeting he had with the Queen or the latest poll's has brought out his human side.

I told you he was bricking it