Europe, Referendum & Brexit (formerly Europe..IN or OUT??)

(09-06-2016 12:04 )wackawoo Wrote:  So you have confirmed the leaflet - Thanks.

It's easy to confirm the obvious.

(09-06-2016 11:55 )bigglesworth Wrote:  Michael Froman, the US trade representative, recently said this:

"The US is not keen on pursuing a separate free trade deal with Britain if it leaves the EU, as we’re not particularly in the market for FTAs with individual countries. I think it’s absolutely clear that Britain has a greater voice at the trade table being part of the EU, being part of a larger economic entity, and that EU membership gives Britain more leverage in negotiations."

Can people please stop using US propaganda and black mail, the US is not part of the EU and they trade with it, they have nothing whatsoever to do with British and European politics, can you imagine any other country in the world trying to pressure the US into doing something?

Busineses in these countries will not suddenly stop tradig with Britian, especially when the trade is already there, UNLESS, the rest of Europe make it very very difficult. The US is not the be all and end all of everything, and from what I have heard is pretty much in decline as the worlds super power.

Quote:It's worth adding to the above that the EU, by speaking with a single voice and with a huge combined population, carries considerably more weight in international trade negotiations than any of its individual members such as the UK could manage by themselves.

That's a smoke screen, Britian will not have as much power has you might think if in europe. This would all depend on whetherr trade agreements require ALL to agree or a MAJORITY agree to be passed; Britian could vehemently disagree with a with each andf every trade agreement proposed and vote against it, but if the majority of Europe agree Britian can go wistle dixie and have to impliment every single one.

As I have said before, Europe is made of vastly differing cultures, languages, and histories. The demands will be very different in each country, and all will push for what's best for them (look how the french farmers treat british products if they don't get their way), it is not like the US or Canada, were from east coast to west, despite the cultral mix it's pretty much one thing, ironically, very much like a UK based country.

One of the biggest problems being, nobody seems to know exactly what all these trade negotiations are in detail, everybody is saying bad for trade, bad for trade agreements, and not so bad, but nobody is saying exactly what these trade agreements are.

(09-06-2016 12:12 )straw man Wrote:  

(09-06-2016 12:04 )wackawoo Wrote:  So you have confirmed the leaflet - Thanks.

It's easy to confirm the obvious.

The leaflet is not pro Europe, think about that.

(09-06-2016 12:10 )terence Wrote:  ^yeah but it's not government run nor is it bias towards any party who may govern. the bbc is widely known and respected around the world for it's neutrality in everything (except it's commentary on england football matches of course!)

Courty file showed otherwise.

Although i do remember the government getting very annoyed with the reporting of the Falklands war

(09-06-2016 11:46 )misterG Wrote:  I used it as an example of a comment on the same debate but with the opposite bias to sky.

Except Sky is pro-Brexit, too.

And the BBC aren't very anti-Brexit, for that matter.

wackawoo Wrote:Can people please stop using US propaganda and black mail, the US is not part of the EU and they trade with it, they have nothing whatsoever to do with British and European politics, can you imagine any other country in the world trying to pressure the US into doing something?

What, like Kosovo?
I do like your belief that when the US disagree with your case, that makes it propaganda. Were we to find you some US person (Don Trump, perhaps) who thought Brexit was cool, would that alter your view on the importance of US views on trade?

the brexit campaigners have way more questions to answer that the stay camp, hence the more intense questioning. i wouldn't call that bias. we need to know firm facts about what brexit will mean for us, facts that seem very hard to come by.

(09-06-2016 12:41 )Doddle Wrote:  I do like your belief that when the US disagree with your case, that makes it propaganda. Were we to find you some US person (Don Trump, perhaps) who thought Brexit was cool, would that alter your view on the importance of US views on trade?

Dude, it's a down right threat. Stay in europe or else, it's not even vailed, seriously, there's rose tinted and then there's rose tinted.

Know nothing about trump or US politics, it has nothing whatsoever to do with me, I'm not american.

(09-06-2016 12:01 )wackawoo Wrote:  

(09-06-2016 11:22 )SecretAgent Wrote:  ^ Of course it's true. 80 million Turks are going to come & live next door to you in the next few weeks!

When did anybody ever say that?

But that responce is telling to me.

Brexit have claimed repeatedly that Turkey are on the verge of joining the EU and that 80 million of them will head this way. Its an example of the lies and fear tactics on immigration being put out there by Brexit. All EU members have a veto on a new country's accession into the EU. Do you seriously think Cyprus will vote for Turkey to come in? Turkey is decades away from membership.

(09-06-2016 12:44 )terence Wrote:  i wouldn't call that bias. we need to know firm facts about what brexit will mean for us, facts that seem very hard to come by.

That's becasue nobody can know, but that applies to all the doomsayers who want to stay in as well.

From what I have seen over the past weeks or so, the only thng that would affect Britian negatively is trade, absolutely everything else would bennefit britian if you really look into it.

Trouble is with trade, I suspect it's such a complex thing that nobody really knows one way for the other.

All I have seen for the 'in' is Britian would have much more say in trade negotiations, but this all depends if they can veto any agreement and it's not a majority thing. And what would happen if Britian kept vetoing? the other members would get pretty pissed off about it all. conversely, what if Britian was pushing for something and all the other countries kept vetoing what Britian wants, you could end up with quite a destructive stalemate..

Lets be realistic here, other countries, including the US will NEVER stop trading with Britian, people are going on as if all trade would just stop, that's just nonsense.

Being out of the EU Britian could negotiate it's own terms and agreement would eventually be made, even if it was in the long run.

(09-06-2016 12:34 )wackawoo Wrote:  The leaflet is not pro Europe, think about that.

The leaflet is not pro-Europe, which is why it states the obvious and makes it seem like breaking news.