Europe, Referendum & Brexit (formerly Europe..IN or OUT??)

(24-06-2016 20:16 )mysterion Wrote:  

(24-06-2016 20:01 )snookered147 Wrote:  The answer to that, I suspect is the long standing division over Europe within his own party and a desire to appease the Euro sceptic flank with a referendum

Yes exactly that. He knew it was a gamble but thought it would hold his party together.

At the 2015 general election the EU didn't feature in the top 10 of issues listed by voters as their main concerns. Cameron’s problem was that for some of his MPs it was the main reason they went into politics.

I wonder if Gove & co played Cameron over this. Saying (or at least hinting) in private that they'd support Remain, and then coming out for Leave after there was no going back.

(24-06-2016 22:21 )straw man Wrote:  I think the people who keep repeating the 'EU is undemocratic' myth have taken a tactic from Joseph Goebbels.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."

He also said:

"The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over."

Undemocratic is ~200,000 swing voters in 'middle England' determining the outcome of each General Election, whilst the other 60-odd million of us suck it up. Not to mention an unelected second chamber and head of state. We should be getting our own house in order, not blaming Johnny Foreigner.

(24-06-2016 17:23 )HEX!T Wrote:  

(24-06-2016 16:56 )The Silent Majority Wrote:  

(24-06-2016 14:28 )HEX!T Wrote:  as for sturgeon, its purley flag waving. she seems to think that scotland can just stay. but the reality is the UK voted to leave, scotland is part of the uk so it has to leave as well. if scotland decideds to leave the uk and wants back in to the eu it will have to take its place at the back of the line and wait the 20 or so years it takes to get membership.

I wouldn't dismiss Sturgeon so lightly. There's more to her than the little gobshite she replaced.

of that i have no doubt but the vote has already been cast so even if she manages to get a referendum together before the uk signs article 50, she will still have to wait for the uk gov to sanction Scotland leaving. again deals would have to be struck and it wouldnt be pain free for either country.

also scotland was already told by the eu it would have to wait its turn if it separates from the uk at the last referendum. so she will be misleading the public if she trys to sell the idea of joining the eu as soon as scotland Secedes. also would the scots be willing to hand over there democratic voting rights to Brussels as soon as they win self governance back from England?. that i doubt.

personally i would be more than happy for Scotland to go and be accepted straight away as Edinburgh is a lot closer to Newcastle than London is so would offer more business opportunities to the north east of England.

truth of it is mate. scotland would be wise to sit and wait. see what kind of deal the uk can strike with europe as were not gonna stop trading with them, while at the same time see what other deals open up that were previously closed off from us because we were part of the eu block.

There's no guarantee yet that there will be another referendum, just that it's on the table. But if she doesn't start the process now, she won't have it in her armoury when she needs it, bearing in mind it will have to happen within 2 years if we want to make the case that Scotland would be 'staying in' rather than asking to get back in.
The thing I got from her speech, though, was that another referendum wasn't the only thing she was working on.

Interesting times ahead

Been looking at this american finantial thing again

Says for the UK to be able to leave the EU that's IF a deal is struck betwix the EU and UK, to get it approved:

Qualified majority of 72% of the remianing 27 memeber states by number :

Representing 65% of the population:

Simple majority by the European parliament.

Well after Farage retracting one of the Leave's main promises earlier today, there was quite an amusing News Night programme with a Leave MP who went and retracted the promise to end migration from the EU, explaining that free movement of labour was essential.

It makes me wonder how many of the Leave promises are going to be kept?

(24-06-2016 22:17 )barracuda Wrote:  No, as clearly stated it refers to searches made from the UK.

And there's none one i the UK that is either an imigrant, from abroad, not voted, apolitical?

I saw that elsewhere very early today, there's no dates, times, percentages, numbers or anything on it.


Personally, I'm not overly convince that people living in this country don't know what the EU is. I'm also skeptical about the wording of the sentences, must poeple would just put EU or go to wiki to find out more about it.

https://www.google.co.uk/trends/

https://www.google.co.uk/trends/story/GB...wAAAz8M_en

(24-06-2016 23:26 )Prince Henry Sinclair Wrote:  Well after Farage retracting one of the Leave's main promises earlier today, there was quite an amusing News Night programme with a Leave MP who went and retracted the promise to end migration from the EU, explaining that free movement of labour was essential.

It makes me wonder how many of the Leave promises are going to be kept?

Any more, and like the Scots it could be challanged

I keep hearing that it could be 3 years or more before the UK actually leaves the EU - which strikes me as completely ridiculous. I mean by then opinion polls could be showing that 65% want to stay in the EU. What are they going to do then, say it doesn't matter what people think, because we're going by a referendum result from 3 years ago! If the UK doesn't leave now in a timely manner it wouldn't surprise me if we don't leave at all.

(24-06-2016 23:46 )eskimo quinn Wrote:  I keep hearing that it could be 3 years or more before the UK actually leaves the EU - which strikes me as completely ridiculous. I mean by then opinion polls could be showing that 65% want to stay in the EU. What are they going to do then, say it doesn't matter what people think, because we're going by a referendum result from 3 years ago! If the UK doesn't leave now in a timely manner it wouldn't surprise me if we don't leave at all.

The quickest it could be is 2 years.

You need to bare in mind only 1 million more people WHO VOTED was leave, and a lot of people who voted leave were protest votes not really expecting the UK to actually leave, a bit like people voting for UKIP lnowing the wouldn't get in, protest votes alone could swallow 1 million right there.

In addition 30% of the population did not vote, which is nearly 20 million people; in reality, it could be the case that the majority of people ACTUALLY WANT to stay in Europe, but got fucked over by protest and apathy.

I wouldn't suprise me if something was cooked up to actually stay, the rest of the EU would not object, trouble is, the UK would then be a laughing stock of the world and be Europes bitch.

(24-06-2016 22:42 )The Silent Majority Wrote:  The thing I got from her speech, though, was that another referendum wasn't the only thing she was working on.

Yes you're right, I noticed her reference to looking at all options (of Scotland staying in the EU), so she clearly has more than one plan.