Europe, Referendum & Brexit (formerly Europe..IN or OUT??)

(25-06-2016 05:01 )SecretAgent Wrote:  Also there a calls for a General Election. If that was won by a party who in their manifesto said they were against BREXIT that would be interesting!

I posted about this yesterday. If a party is elected who explicitly favour a second referendum and have campaigned on that basis, there will surely be no reason for not holding one.

This vote has changed the face of politics. I'm surprised & disappointed that some people who voted have said they voted Leave as a protest vote and did not want or expect Brexit to happen. Also a number who seem to have been taken in by Brexit propaganda eg the £350m & the millions about to arrive from Turkey. I would assume that many on the Remain side also would say that they believed some of the wilder claims made by Remain.

So if it were possible that for future elections there was much stricter control over the claims that parties make I think that would be good eg any financial claims have to be assessed by an independent body. That could then answer the claim from lots of voters that they wanted facts. It was wrong in this campaign that independent professionals had there assessments rubbished just because they provided assessments that Brexit did not like. We should be able to have unquestioned facts to help us. It would then be the responsibility of parties to explain how they would overcome what they deemed a negative assessment.

I've also long held the view that voting should be mandatory even if the voter can spoil their ballot paper as I don't think it's good that people are questioning this result. I'd call this the Wackawoo Law in honour of our forum member

I don't like the result but we should respect it.

(25-06-2016 08:51 )misterG Wrote:  SNIP

(24-06-2016 22:38 )marxian Wrote:  Undemocratic is ~200,000 swing voters in 'middle England' determining the outcome of each General Election, whilst the other 60-odd million of us suck it up. Not to mention an unelected second chamber and head of state. We should be getting our own house in order, not blaming Johnny Foreigner.

Wholeheartedly agree. There is a fundamental problem with the two party system in the UK that leaves huge numbers of people unrepresented and disenfranchised, and a second chamber based on wealth and family history is just wrong.
Look at Scotland where 50% of the public vote returned 94% of seats in government for the SNP.

SNIP

The SNP are not in Government at Westminster, the Tories are, with a majority, despite only getting 36.9 % of the vote.

The SNP are opposed to First Past the Post, in contrast to the Tories and Labour, who know that it all but guarantees the continuation of the 'two party system' at Westminster.

Mind you first passed the post stopped UKIP getting 90 Mp's in the last which would have meant Nigel Farage would now have some power and might be calling shots now

I don't think there will ever be a true Brexit. The whole thing will get watered down, so that we have a close agreement with the EU and accept their laws, but are not actually a member. The Brexit will be a technicality more than anything and not a huge amount will change.

(25-06-2016 10:55 )HannahsPet Wrote:  Mind you first passed the post stopped UKIP getting 90 Mp's in the last which would have meant Nigel Farage would now have some power and might be calling shots now

Yes, there are always winners & losers with FPTP, and there are many reasons why FPTP is so unfair.

As for Farage, he didn't need any MPs to royally fuck things up!

at least it might be good to have it there to fall back on if there ever is a low turnout and if there is another referendum I would suspect that the result might not as close as this one was

(25-06-2016 08:51 )misterG Wrote:  A referendum is the only truly democratic process in any political system where every vote counts and we just had one - the majority say Leave.

Yes but since than the Leave campaign have already withdrawn some of their pledges, such as the promise to halt EU migration to the UK. The referendum result is therefore invalid and it must be discarded.

^ Normally, politicians have the decency to wait at least a few weeks, sometimes months, before they start backtracking!

(25-06-2016 11:00 )barracuda Wrote:  

(25-06-2016 08:51 )misterG Wrote:  A referendum is the only truly democratic process in any political system where every vote counts and we just had one - the majority say Leave.

Yes but since than the Leave campaign have already withdrawn some of their pledges, such as the promise to halt EU migration to the UK. The referendum result is therefore invalid and it must be discarded.

Perhaps there's a mechanism to render the result null & void, in view of the winners admitting their lies?

(said more in hope than expectation )