Europe, Referendum & Brexit (formerly Europe..IN or OUT??)

(25-06-2016 15:17 )Matt77 Wrote:  It might not just be disappointed Remainers who will want a second referendum in due course. Just listen to, and read about, the speed at which the promises of the Leave campaign are unravelling:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03zfw9m

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016...s-spending

I'm actually swaying now to it being an ok idea, at least give it a go, I think poeple have been scared byt he markets and pound collapsing, the remain people can jump on this.

(25-06-2016 15:07 )babelover48 Wrote:  Petition for 2nd referendum now has close t 2m signatures it will be debated in Parliament but it doesn't mean that they will call one wonder how may times CW signed it? I noticed votes were cast in Gibraltar what would happen to their status in Europe?

basically they are a british overseas terrorority so they are a part of britain the spanish will make it difficult by threatening closing the border basically cutting them off from the spanish mainland

(25-06-2016 11:23 )Censorship :-( Wrote:  

(24-06-2016 14:28 )HEX!T Wrote:  

(24-06-2016 12:09 )wackawoo Wrote:  

(24-06-2016 12:07 )terence Wrote:  the sad thing for me is the fact that 17.4 million people have decided such a monumental thing for a population of over 65 million.

as a rule anything that makes nigel farage happy, we should all do the complete opposite. just common sense imo.

Clearly it wasn't just about farage, I doubt many poeple like him, as the last election showed.

i cant stand the guy. he and his ilk are bigoted, racist nitwits who campaingned on lies and fearmongering.

yet i voted leave.
why?

SNIP

the TTIP. a deal that was made behind closed doors because it would be rejected if the public ever found out its contents before it was ratified.

SNIP

That would be the same TTIP that the Tories are 'champing at the bit' to sign up to?

yes mate the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comm...79688.html just 1 article of many that were against the idea.
its 1 of the main reasons i voted leave.

(25-06-2016 15:26 )Matt77 Wrote:  UK vs 27 EU States - this will done on our terms?

Wake up for God's sake. We used to extract deals and rebates in our favour because we often used our veto or threatened to walk but now we've voted to leave completely and have no cards to play.

Some one said on one of the debate programs UK tried to get through 70 legislation laws and were out voted 70 times.

This one of the biggest lies of the remain campaign.

As the remian expert on the youtube clip said, it's done by a consensus of opnion and then the vote will confirm this. So no, the UK can't veto everything it want's, it UK is out voted, it's out voted.

You could have a real threat were 20 countries of the EU who take way more from the EU than contribute can out vote by consesus ALL the countries the contribute the most.

Harping on about the American finance experts again.

In fella spoke that the UK had done a good thing, he said that the idea of the EU started out ok but it turned into globolization, which for reasons he explain was not a good thing any more.

What he wanted was global free trade this would suit everybody.

Outright veto is only on big issues but if you really care about a smaller issue that is decided by QMV you can threaten to veto a big issue that you actually support in principle - its called negotiating/politics/gamesmanship.

My point remains - we are now in a high level game of diplomatic poker and we've just taken away our own ability to bluff.

(25-06-2016 15:25 )Scots Napoleon Wrote:  

(25-06-2016 11:59 )Censorship :-( Wrote:  The Scottish Parliament is a devolved Parliament, and can only legislate for areas that are not 'reserved'; Westminster retains power in respect of these (many) reserved issues, such as defence, international relations etc.

You're absolutely right - in theory anyway.

The more interesting question is would a British Prime Minister try to block Scotland from going its own way? Surely that would eventually prove to be a vain attempt to shore up the Union and leave the Prime Minister with an embarrassing failure on his hands? A major clash between the Scottish and UK governments and the UK government eventually backing down? A 62% Remain vote in Scotland is a decisive margin is it not?

Legally, it seems, presumably as constitutional matters are reserved, the Westminster Parliament (WP) has to agree to a 'legally binding' referendum being held - It was argued in the past that the Scottish Parliament (SP) could hold a consultative referendum, but the outcome would, it was claimed, be open to legal challenge.

The SNP manifesto set out their position on a second referendum, which included specific mention of Scotland being taken out of the EU against its will as being a substantive change since the result in 2014, and as such, a potential trigger for another referendum; of course, that's exactly what has now happened.

So, the question is whether the WP would refuse permission if the SP votes for another referendum, in light of the decisive vote on the EU in Scotland, the SNP's clear manifesto commitment etc.

(25-06-2016 15:36 )HEX!T Wrote:  

(25-06-2016 11:23 )Censorship :-( Wrote:  

(24-06-2016 14:28 )HEX!T Wrote:  

(24-06-2016 12:09 )wackawoo Wrote:  

(24-06-2016 12:07 )terence Wrote:  the sad thing for me is the fact that 17.4 million people have decided such a monumental thing for a population of over 65 million.

as a rule anything that makes nigel farage happy, we should all do the complete opposite. just common sense imo.

Clearly it wasn't just about farage, I doubt many poeple like him, as the last election showed.

i cant stand the guy. he and his ilk are bigoted, racist nitwits who campaingned on lies and fearmongering.

yet i voted leave.
why?

SNIP

the TTIP. a deal that was made behind closed doors because it would be rejected if the public ever found out its contents before it was ratified.

SNIP

That would be the same TTIP that the Tories are 'champing at the bit' to sign up to?

yes mate the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comm...79688.html just 1 article of many that were against the idea.
its 1 of the main reasons i voted leave.

My point being that, with the UK no longer going to be in the EU, and the Tories in power at Westminster, leaving has only increased the risk of the UK being signed up to TTIP.

NI singing God Save the queen v wales - I wonder for how much longer?

Welsh anthem always emphatically sung whether it be rugby or football the welsh are proud of their anthem

(25-06-2016 15:46 )Matt77 Wrote:  Outright veto is only on big issues but if you really care about a smaller issue that is decided by QMV you can threaten to veto a big issue that you actually support in principle - its called negotiating/politics/gamesmanship.

My point remains - we are now in a high level game of diplomatic poker and we've just taken away our own ability to bluff.

Can't see that causing any problems