Europe, Referendum & Brexit (formerly Europe..IN or OUT??)

(31-08-2018 00:38 )HannahsPet Wrote:  Should put Sean Dyche in control of Coming out of Europe he has now has expeience

He'd probably do a good job.
Everyone would have to be a team player. There would be maximum effort from all, and there wouldn't be complaints if things went against him.

He's done a decent job in his 1st year in Europe. He got through to round 3.
It better than one of the other local teams did years ago. They were knocked out in the 1st round by Trolleborg, a Swedish team of amatuer players.

(30-08-2018 23:02 )The Silent Majority Wrote:  

(30-08-2018 18:45 )cwpussylover Wrote:  typical remoaners load of bolox

Typical Brexiteer response when they can't put together a decent counter argument

so much shite spilled out there cant be arsed

(31-08-2018 01:34 )Jack the Nipper Wrote:  As things stand with Freedom of Movement in the EU the immigration controls actively discriminates against highly skilled migrants like surgeon's,doctors, computer engineer's etc from non-EU countries in favour of EU-migrants carrying out un-skilled jobs like fruit pickers,street cleaners etc.The whole point to the old cliched saying 'taking back control of immigration' & ending freedom of movement via a visa system would be to control immigration in areas where there maybe a surplus of labour for that particular line of work.Should there be labour shortages that cannot be filled locally then apply visa systems to workers from outside the UK (no matter what country).More importantly though is that with the end of freedom of movement is that there would be a more fairer immigration system where one country is not discriminated against another.

And whilst controlling immigration in the EU was one of many reasons why I voted Leave what could possibly be wrong with adopting an Australian Points based system regarding immigration with criteria being no criminal record, medically fit to work,a guaranteed job/work or sponsor (unable to access benefits system on arrival) but also be of a good financial standing.

One thing Corbyn & the Labour party has campaigned against in the EU was the current situation regarding job vacancies in the UK where at the moment no company is currently obligated to advertise vacancies in this country & can solely recruit from the EU in job fairs or Polish,Romanian etc recruitment agencies, pretty much what many companies did when building the Olympic venues/village for the 2012 Olympics (which politicians like Boris knew about but never mentioned).Corbyn has been pretty vocal that he wants companies advertising vacancies in the UK before the advertise in the EU if the position hasn't been filled.

I've been working in the construction industry (probably the largest industry that has seen the rise in EU workers in the UK) for almost 25 years (since I was 16) & believe me on the 100's of sites I have worked in my time the recruitment of apprentices have plummeted dramatically particularly over the past 10-15 years pretty much because companies don't want the hassle of employing school/college leavers (which is a shame) also because companies prefer recruiting EU workers or advertising in the EU.

In an ideal world free movement of people would be expanded globally and there would not be a disparity between FOM & Visa applicants, what we have is not a perfect system but I would not sacrifice all the other advantages of The EU for an Australian points based system. To be honest immigration is very much a non issue for me, my only concern on immigration is how to make it less of an issue for the rest of the country. I really don't care whether a job or a social house goes to someone from this country or not, nationality does not equal merit, you had nothing to do with where you were born it's not an achievement that you managed to make your way out your Mother's vagina in the same country that the job is available in. I don't even care if someone comes to this country illegally if they are going to work and abide by the law when they are here I don't give a fuck.

As for companies hiring from other countries it's called the Free Market, if they want to do that then that is there prerogative but perhaps rather than leaving The EU altogether we could look for a bit of state intervention into the market. Germany has a vocational training programme an alternative to higher education that accounts for 60% of it's young people, it's currently exporting it's model to 18 other countries and helping them set it up. It's not just the German government but German companies abroad are looking to adapt the model, BMW has foreign apprenticeship programmes in other countries including EU countries such as Spain. Austria has also passed a law that gives young people the right to an apprenticeship.

As we see with BMW it is entirely possible for private companies within the EU to hire people on apprenticeship schemes within that country, the fact that British firms don't is not indicative to The EU (if Germany, Spain & Austria can do it then so can we) it's that it's indicative to the culture of these British companies and perhaps successive governments. Administration after Administration like to talk about apprenticeships & alternatives to higher education but they always fall short of anything even remotely half decent and as always successive governments like to point the finger at The EU Bogeyman rather than take any responsibility for their own failings. We don't need to leave The EU in order to combat these issues.

(31-08-2018 01:49 )Jack the Nipper Wrote:  Apparently in the papers earlier this week Paula Lane who played Kylie Platt (David's wife) in Corrie has blamed Brexit for not being able to get any acting roles since her character was killed off 2 years ago in Corrie.Nothing to do with the fact your lack of credible acting skills didn't exactly set the world alight Paula.

As I've literally just typed this the light bulb in my bathroom has just blown damn you Brexit (what else could it have been).

Ask Mrs May for arefund!!!!

(31-08-2018 17:51 )southsidestu Wrote:  In an ideal world free movement of people would be expanded globally and there would not be a disparity between FOM & Visa applicants, what we have is not a perfect system but I would not sacrifice all the other advantages of The EU for an Australian points based system. To be honest immigration is very much a non issue for me, my only concern on immigration is how to make it less of an issue for the rest of the country. I really don't care whether a job or a social house goes to someone from this country or not, nationality does not equal merit, you had nothing to do with where you were born it's not an achievement that you managed to make your way out your Mother's vagina in the same country that the job is available in. I don't even care if someone comes to this country illegally if they are going to work and abide by the law when they are here I don't give a fuck.

As for companies hiring from other countries it's called the Free Market, if they want to do that then that is there prerogative but perhaps rather than leaving The EU altogether we could look for a bit of state intervention into the market. Germany has a vocational training programme an alternative to higher education that accounts for 60% of it's young people, it's currently exporting it's model to 18 other countries and helping them set it up. It's not just the German government but German companies abroad are looking to adapt the model, BMW has foreign apprenticeship programmes in other countries including EU countries such as Spain. Austria has also passed a law that gives young people the right to an apprenticeship.

As we see with BMW it is entirely possible for private companies within the EU to hire people on apprenticeship schemes within that country, the fact that British firms don't is not indicative to The EU (if Germany, Spain & Austria can do it then so can we) it's that it's indicative to the culture of these British companies and perhaps successive governments. Administration after Administration like to talk about apprenticeships & alternatives to higher education but they always fall short of anything even remotely half decent and as always successive governments like to point the finger at The EU Bogeyman rather than take any responsibility for their own failings. We don't need to leave The EU in order to combat these issues.

The problem is we don't live in an ideal world & so for your vision of Utopia in which this 'Global Freedom of Movement' notion in which anyone (be it a Terrorist or a career criminal fleeing their own country) would be free to move (everyone will have Nomad on their passport) where they like no questions asked no criminal record checks nothing sounds like a great idea (not).A bit of a reality check would suggest any political party suggesting such an proposal in their manifesto (Green party are the closest) would garner less votes the The Monster Raving Loony Party.

The whole issue about immigration will not disappear if people just close their ears & adopt a blinkered approach (as it doesn't affect them) without addressing legitimate
concerns. As you've said the issue is a non-issue for you although it is among the main concerns for 7 out of 10 voters suggests your views are out of kilter with the general voter & so changing peoples ideology to your way of thinking (through your open borders ideology) would be like preaching to the un-converted.
Contrary to popular beliefs I'm pretty much pro-immigration with the caveat that immigration is controlled & my reasoning is how can a country plan & provide infrastructure if immigration is uncontrolled with what could be an unsustainable spike in population growth.The only way I can see immigration becoming less of an issue with general voters if people feel there is an issue of control (whether that means cutting numbers).

And lastly a person living here illegally who works & abides by the law in your view is fine? more like a recipe for disaster.Someone living here ILLEGALLY is already committing a criminal act (by being here illegally)so expecting them to abide by the law is a nonsense.And just to mention the high probability of using fake id to get by ie driving license,passport,bank accounts etc & probably working on the black economy (cash-in-hand work) where they are often exploited through slave labour conditions.

Just because there are no checks at the border does not meant that people would go around unchecked altogether.

Take the Schengen Area, whilst there are no checks at Border Control the laws of most countries still require individuals to carry identification. The rules of Schengen state that hotels and other types of commercial accommodation must register all foreign citizens, including citizens of other Schengen states which is why when you go on holiday they require your Passport and your signature as means of ID verification. Schengen rules also allow for Police checks to be carried out based on general police information and experience regarding possible threats to public security and aim, in particular, to combat cross-border crime. In terms of air travel the rules allow airport authorities or law enforcement to carry out security checks on passengers by verifying their passport or ID cards.

Despite what Nigel Farage or Katie Hopkins might like to tell you The Schengen Zone countries are hardly descending into some sort of Sodom & Gommorah style dystopia governed by Sharia Law. Societies are perfectly capable of functioning with open borders.

I am willing to bet for a lot of those 7 out of 10 voters, immigration doesn't really affect them either. Areas with the highest proportions of leave voters also had the lowest number of immigrants, take Clacton, it was as the most likely of all 650 seats to vote UKIP when Carswell flipped and that place is whiter than a bag of imperial mints. Now I know not everyone voted leave because of immigration it was about Sovereignty blah blah blah, but many polls have shown that whilst immigration might not of been the main concern for a majority of leave voters it was for a plurality of voters. Also a lot of these concerns are based on misconception, the idea that immigrants have a negative impact on our society when they are more likely to work and less likely to claim benefits or commit a crime than British natives. Their additional presence may cause a strain on certain public services but they are funding those services at a higher rate than British citizens, the fact that the money isn't being used to combat that is down to our government not them. Just because 7 out of 10 people believe that immigration is a problem doesn't make them right and it is better for our society to adhere to the facts rather than to pander to incorrect opinions just because they are popular, the latter being Brexit in a nutshell and Trump and Orban and Erdogan and Salvini and Le Penn and Wilders - We don't live in an ideal world, your fucking telling me

NatCen research poll overseen by Prof John Curtice, the BBC pollster whose exit poll called the 2017 General Election almost exactly, puts Remain at 59% Leave 41%. Remain now one percentage point short of a Super Majority.

Again this is just one poll, headed up by one of the best in the country, but there are more and more just one polls appearing. Then you get people who advocate Brexit: Bojo, Farage & now Mervyn King attacking the Governments handling and The Chequers deal but offering no alternative. If prominent Brexiteers are going to shit all over how its going but have no plan themselves its only natural that leave voters would want to back out.

Most of the switches from Leave to Remain are happening in the Labour Party. You could argue away the polls as they are biased to Remain and only contain a small sample but there are other indicators within the party as well. Several of the Trade Unions most recently GMB, one of the Big 3 that have a lot of sway over the party due to the money that they donate, have backed A People's vote. Mayor Khan & Mayor Burnham have come out in support as well and John McDonnell has said it cant be ruled out

As we saw last night with Labour's adoption of the IHRA definition of antisemitism with a caveat, Corbyn is incapable of leading. He waits until everyone around him supports something then gives in. A similar outcome will no doubt take place with a People's Vote on the final deal. All we need is for McCluskey and Lansman to come out in support of the vote and it will become party policy, which will shift the attitude of Labour Leavers in Corbyn's camp who wanted Brexit as they saw The Eu as a neo-liberal barrier to their socialist utopia and will follow The Dear Leader where he goes. This will probably in turn push remain over the 60% mark

I see Ian Duncunt Smith has finally admitted he and his fellow Brexiteers don't actually have an alternative plan for Brexit...

(12-09-2018 11:57 )The Silent Majority Wrote:  I see Ian Duncunt Smith has finally admitted he and his fellow Brexiteers don't actually have an alternative plan for Brexit...

I've got a plan....hard border all round..only fit birds allowed in on visa from 18-39...job dodgers on dole to fill the holes left by EE exodus