Coronavirus - is enough being done to contain it?

^ Racist crap

How have I been racist?? Not blaming Chinese people just there government. Just can’t stand how somehow it will be spun that China have saved the world yet mainly caused this whole thing to start with.

(30-03-2020 16:18 )babefan2012 Wrote:  Said some stuff ...

(30-03-2020 16:46 )TickleTheOrc Wrote:  Said some more stuff in response ...

What strikes me about this exchange is how quickly it comes down to a country versus country issue. And that rhetoric is bound to accelerate as the crisis worsens.

It's important to remember that Chinese doctors blew the whistle from virtually Day 1 and, within the first week, they were furiously writing and publishing papers. Knowing the virus's rate of contagion and the fact that it would spread, they even went to the trouble of having their papers translated at speed and published in western journals.

The Chinese government is a different story. It downplayed the crisis and, yes, lied about its extent until the truth could not be contained.

The same thing happened at our end. Doctors and scientists read those papers and started yelling from the rooftops about social distancing and containment. And our government downplayed the crisis, did f**k all to restrict movement, and simply told us all to wash our hands.

So this isn't really about China versus the West, IMHO. This about national governments that are not just disrespectful of 'experts', but are virtually illiterate about science, maths and medicine, cow-towing instead to whatever bullshitting media hack with irrational bias is currently keeping them in power. And Boris f*cking Johnson is the worst proponent of that Machiavellian spirit.

If the virus doesn't kill us quickly, the climate will do it slowly, while income inequality worsens and we're all crushed under a mountain of debt. And all the way down into this ninth circle of hell, we'll still be blaming the whole mess on immigrants and poor people, because that's what Dominic Cummings has trained us to do.

(30-03-2020 14:58 )TickleTheOrc Wrote:  

(30-03-2020 12:56 )babefan2012 Wrote:  Gotta be honest with all thats coming out with just how much China likely lied I'm kinda shitting myself. If it's true what's said then they should be blackballed the world over. They should be cut out of any deals ever, effectively put in isolation for good. Their government cant be trusted to be open and truthful thats abundantly clear. I don't want to hear any crap of "its not china's fault" or "its not a Chinese virus" or anything along the lines of "communism is wonderful" once this has fucked off I swear to god I'm gonna explode.

Jesus. Playing the blame game never helps anyone. By that logic, we should have banned / isolated the US for giving the world Swine Flu. Or Isolated Egypt for giving the world MERS. When the next virus epidemic emerges from your own country, are you going to call on the world to isolate your own country? People should have learned from previous epidemics that governments should be prepared or preparing with plans of action.

Instead, we've got current world leaders like Boris that opted for "herd immunity" and Trump calling it a dem Hoax for 2 months. Basically, poor leadership during a crisis f*cks the country. We've mostly put up with poor leadership because elections remove them soon enough. Just now, we're seeing how when leaders lie, people freaking die during a pandemic. If "herd immunity" was a viable option. China would have done that already. If Covid-19 was just a dem Hoax, China wouldn't have literally shut down to attempt to contain it.

China lying? Are the numbers lower than they should be? Maybe, but if we take into account that EVERY country is counting the cases differently. All the numbers provided are a reflection of what they had/were dealing with. Even if you call the 2 weeks that China smothered information on it as Lying. What the heck was your own government doing for the 2 months China was fighting it? Eating popcorn and wiping their asses?

If you want to be angry at something, we've let incompetence rise into leadership positions which they were never fit for.

I wojuld agree incompetence has risen into leadership positions which in turn has led to many people taking their eye off the ball and not realising there was a serious situation developing, and probably should have reacted a lot quicker when it developed. I think it is very hard to even think China lied. So what would be the proof you would want to see Babefan that shows for definite they have lied about the figures? You been looking at conspiracy theories for this information?

(30-03-2020 17:42 )Goodfella3041 Wrote:  

(30-03-2020 16:18 )babefan2012 Wrote:  Said some stuff ...

(30-03-2020 16:46 )TickleTheOrc Wrote:  Said some more stuff in response ...

What strikes me about this exchange is how quickly it comes down to a country versus country issue. And that rhetoric is bound to accelerate as the crisis worsens.

It's important to remember that Chinese doctors blew the whistle from virtually Day 1 and, within the first week, they were furiously writing and publishing papers. Knowing the virus's rate of contagion and the fact that it would spread, they even went to the trouble of having their papers translated at speed and published in western journals.

The Chinese government is a different story. It downplayed the crisis and, yes, lied about its extent until the truth could not be contained.

The same thing happened at our end. Doctors and scientists read those papers and started yelling from the rooftops about social distancing and containment. And our government downplayed the crisis, did f**k all to restrict movement, and simply told us all to wash our hands.

So this isn't really about China versus the West, IMHO. This about national governments that are not just disrespectful of 'experts', but are virtually illiterate about science, maths and medicine, cow-towing instead to whatever bullshitting media hack with irrational bias is currently keeping them in power. And Boris f*cking Johnson is the worst proponent of that Machiavellian spirit.

If the virus doesn't kill us quickly, the climate will do it slowly, while income inequality worsens and we're all crushed under a mountain of debt. And all the way down into this ninth circle of hell, we'll still be blaming the whole mess on immigrants and poor people, because that's what Dominic Cummings has trained us to do.

A Very Orwellian thought I would say mate. I wonder now if '1984' is happening 20+ years later, but in a way Orwell himself could never have envisaged

(30-03-2020 17:42 )Goodfella3041 Wrote:  

(30-03-2020 16:18 )babefan2012 Wrote:  Said some stuff ...

(30-03-2020 16:46 )TickleTheOrc Wrote:  Said some more stuff in response ...

What strikes me about this exchange is how quickly it comes down to a country versus country issue. And that rhetoric is bound to accelerate as the crisis worsens.

It's important to remember that Chinese doctors blew the whistle from virtually Day 1 and, within the first week, they were furiously writing and publishing papers. Knowing the virus's rate of contagion and the fact that it would spread, they even went to the trouble of having their papers translated at speed and published in western journals.

The Chinese government is a different story. It downplayed the crisis and, yes, lied about its extent until the truth could not be contained.

The same thing happened at our end. Doctors and scientists read those papers and started yelling from the rooftops about social distancing and containment. And our government downplayed the crisis, did f**k all to restrict movement, and simply told us all to wash our hands.

So this isn't really about China versus the West, IMHO. This about national governments that are not just disrespectful of 'experts', but are virtually illiterate about science, maths and medicine, cow-towing instead to whatever bullshitting media hack with irrational bias is currently keeping them in power. And Boris f*cking Johnson is the worst proponent of that Machiavellian spirit.

If the virus doesn't kill us quickly, the climate will do it slowly, while income inequality worsens and we're all crushed under a mountain of debt. And all the way down into this ninth circle of hell, we'll still be blaming the whole mess on immigrants and poor people, because that's what Dominic Cummings has trained us to do.

Agreed. Maybe something I didn’t make clear I was more aiming at the Chinese government than the people, the doctors did their best to warn there own government. Some got threatened I believe into backtracking there claims.

Although I would say the main reason for our and other western countries inactivity has more to do with the financial implications, basically countries being ground to halt then it has to do with being scientifically illiterate as much of this whole situation is on the job learning. There’s no real guidebook on how to fight this thing.

(30-03-2020 17:24 )babefan2012 Wrote:  So what part have I not understood??? that something that fundamentally came from a country with weird eating habits, most likely from a wet market where all types of animals are sold. Thats not forgetting that there's the even 0.1% chance it aint natural. Am I wrong?

Oh yeah brilliant, so this whole hell hole situation is created and allowed to spread through china's in action and lies but now we have to rely on the them to provide the world with the tools to fight said problem, OUTFUCKING STANDING. So let me guess does that make them the saviours of the world??? cos if so how fucked up is this situation if thats the case. Can just imagine it now........thank you china.

As for the jobs, too much is owned by them so nothing will really happen and considering the whole way the world is we'll probably be paying them billions for years as thank you payments or some other ludicrously stupid liberal crap rather than uniting against them.

... And you still remain willfully ignorant on the point I've been trying to hammer in. An epidemic of this type can occur ANYWHERE a human comes in contact with any animal. The reason why you are pinning it purely on wet-markets in Asia is mainly because of the limited information you've ingested from a small amount of media. Will getting rid of wet-markets in Asia completely stop this from happening again? Nope. It'll just mean it'll occur in some other manner.

Let's just recap what we do know about Covid-19 so we can get on the same page.
We're pretty sure it came from Bats because it is a type of Coronavirus commonly found in them.
We know it is related to SARS because we'd classify SARS as Covid-2 if we were to timeline it. Was Covid-19 created in lab? No. We can literally timeline/guess when the month in which mutation occurred. There is a reason why it is called Covid-19. The 19 actually means something.
Our best guess so far is that a bat's virus came in contact with another animal that acted as an amplifier for the virus so it could make the jump to humans. With SARS, it was narrowed to civet cats. With Covid-19, we don't know what that link animal is yet.

If the answer was people purely eating bats, we'd be dead already 10x over. Eliminating wet-markets would just prevent weird virus types from mixing with other exotic viruses that are limited/specialized in other animals. Will this prevent the next pandemic. No, but it'll cut one potential source.

Should we be praising China? No. We also shouldn't be putting all the blame on them either. There is plenty of faults for everyone to share in this pandemic. If we're going to even attempt to innoculate ourselves from being wiped out by the next pandemic, it isn't going to be by banning wet-markets or isolating China.

It is going to be by gaining a better understanding of virology and preparing for the next idiot at the helm of our country.

(30-03-2020 17:44 )lovebabes56 Wrote:  

(30-03-2020 14:58 )TickleTheOrc Wrote:  

(30-03-2020 12:56 )babefan2012 Wrote:  Gotta be honest with all thats coming out with just how much China likely lied I'm kinda shitting myself. If it's true what's said then they should be blackballed the world over. They should be cut out of any deals ever, effectively put in isolation for good. Their government cant be trusted to be open and truthful thats abundantly clear. I don't want to hear any crap of "its not china's fault" or "its not a Chinese virus" or anything along the lines of "communism is wonderful" once this has fucked off I swear to god I'm gonna explode.

Jesus. Playing the blame game never helps anyone. By that logic, we should have banned / isolated the US for giving the world Swine Flu. Or Isolated Egypt for giving the world MERS. When the next virus epidemic emerges from your own country, are you going to call on the world to isolate your own country? People should have learned from previous epidemics that governments should be prepared or preparing with plans of action.

Instead, we've got current world leaders like Boris that opted for "herd immunity" and Trump calling it a dem Hoax for 2 months. Basically, poor leadership during a crisis f*cks the country. We've mostly put up with poor leadership because elections remove them soon enough. Just now, we're seeing how when leaders lie, people freaking die during a pandemic. If "herd immunity" was a viable option. China would have done that already. If Covid-19 was just a dem Hoax, China wouldn't have literally shut down to attempt to contain it.

China lying? Are the numbers lower than they should be? Maybe, but if we take into account that EVERY country is counting the cases differently. All the numbers provided are a reflection of what they had/were dealing with. Even if you call the 2 weeks that China smothered information on it as Lying. What the heck was your own government doing for the 2 months China was fighting it? Eating popcorn and wiping their asses?

If you want to be angry at something, we've let incompetence rise into leadership positions which they were never fit for.

I wojuld agree incompetence has risen into leadership positions which in turn has led to many people taking their eye off the ball and not realising there was a serious situation developing, and probably should have reacted a lot quicker when it developed. I think it is very hard to even think China lied. So what would be the proof you would want to see Babefan that shows for definite they have lied about the figures? You been looking at conspiracy theories for this information?

Not really but something just doesn’t add up with this, hasn’t from the start IMO. I Just read a few articles from newspapers. If they haven’t lied then I’ll be surprised, especially considering how they denied it even existed for the first weeks to month. Not mention how the very area this emanated from has significantly lower deaths and infections then places like Italy who have substantially higher numbers, maybe that’s down to them getting a very good hand on it once the cat was let out the bag or the numbers have be fiddled. Truth be told we’ll never truly know either way.

(30-03-2020 17:58 )TickleTheOrc Wrote:  

(30-03-2020 17:24 )babefan2012 Wrote:  So what part have I not understood??? that something that fundamentally came from a country with weird eating habits, most likely from a wet market where all types of animals are sold. Thats not forgetting that there's the even 0.1% chance it aint natural. Am I wrong?

Oh yeah brilliant, so this whole hell hole situation is created and allowed to spread through china's in action and lies but now we have to rely on the them to provide the world with the tools to fight said problem, OUTFUCKING STANDING. So let me guess does that make them the saviours of the world??? cos if so how fucked up is this situation if thats the case. Can just imagine it now........thank you china.

As for the jobs, too much is owned by them so nothing will really happen and considering the whole way the world is we'll probably be paying them billions for years as thank you payments or some other ludicrously stupid liberal crap rather than uniting against them.

... And you still remain willfully ignorant on the point I've been trying to hammer in. An epidemic of this type can occur ANYWHERE a human comes in contact with any animal. The reason why you are pinning it purely on wet-markets in Asia is mainly because of the limited information you've ingested from a small amount of media. Will getting rid of wet-markets in Asia completely stop this from happening again? Nope. It'll just mean it'll occur in some other manner.

Let's just recap what we do know about Covid-19 so we can get on the same page.
We're pretty sure it came from Bats because it is a type of Coronavirus commonly found in them.
We know it is related to SARS because we'd classify SARS as Covid-2 if we were to timeline it. Was Covid-19 created in lab? No. We can literally timeline/guess when the month in which mutation occurred. There is a reason why it is called Covid-19. The 19 actually means something.
Our best guess so far is that a bat's virus came in contact with another animal that acted as an amplifier for the virus so it could make the jump to humans. With SARS, it was narrowed to civet cats. With Covid-19, we don't know what that link animal is yet.

If the answer was people purely eating bats, we'd be dead already 10x over. Eliminating wet-markets would just prevent weird virus types from mixing with other exotic viruses that are limited/specialized in other animals. Will this prevent the next pandemic. No, but it'll cut one potential source.

Should we be praising China? No. We also shouldn't be putting all the blame on them either. There is plenty of faults for everyone to share in this pandemic. If we're going to even attempt to innoculate ourselves from being wiped out by the next pandemic, it isn't going to be by banning wet-markets or isolating China.

It is going to be by gaining a better understanding of virology and preparing for the next idiot at the helm of our country.

Yep, already knew most of that. Most likely though it would have to come from eating or coming into contact with an unclean or otherwise ill animal, so far most of these virus types have emanated from Asia or the Middle East, not being racist just saying but surely that means there is an issue within this area of the world. But yeah is undeniable that viruses or diseases could start anywhere in the world.

Maybe isolating them isn’t the answer but neither is somehow treating them as potential saviours. Agreed there needs to be some uniting of the world to fight these epidemics as god knows there’s enough viruses out there that with our inter connected world could destroy, if anything this proves that with our interconnected world we really need to be on top of viruses and diseases as anything can spread exponentially quicker then ever.

(30-03-2020 18:03 )babefan2012 Wrote:  Not really but something just doesn’t add up with this, hasn’t from the start IMO. I Just read a few articles from newspapers. If they haven’t lied then I’ll be surprised, especially considering how they denied it even existed for the first weeks to month. Not mention how the very area this emanated from has significantly lower deaths and infections then places like Italy who have substantially higher numbers, maybe that’s down to them getting a very good hand on it once the cat was let out the bag or the numbers have be fiddled. Truth be told we’ll never truly know either way.

Remember when I mentioned how every country records the numbers differently? China stopped counting the asymptomatic cases sometime in Feb. Considering it was near the peak, faulting overworked doctors is not what we want to be doing. So the cases for China should actually be higher, but we're only seeing the reported symptomatic cases of those that ended up needing hospital care/deaths. China still did contact tracing and isolated asymptomatic cases to prevent further spread.

This is why we can't just take reported numbers at the face value if everyone uses a different method for reporting the numbers. Every country wants to minimize its own number, so it just becomes a mess when people don't dig at how they got their numbers.

It is why we can't rely purely on headlines and actually dig around to the actual virology experts and see what they have to say to see if it matches up with the media sensationalism.