Coronavirus - is enough being done to contain it?

(28-11-2021 14:47 )SecretAgent Wrote:  As many of the medical experts have stated this is now mainly a killer of the unvaccinated. I find it surprising that governments are not making more of the facts about age and vaccination status of those hospitalized and who sadly die.

It's a tough job educating the uneducated.

Latest ONS figures - Jan 2 - Sept 24 - Age-adjusted risk of death involving coronavirus (Covid 19) was 32 times greater in unvaccinated people, than in vaccinated individuals.

(28-11-2021 14:30 )skully Wrote:  Social media companies need to be held accountable for allowing the spread of conspiracy theories, false information etc.
Yes, we'd still have the papers doing their usual shit stirring and spreading lies and misinformation (and idiots would still believe it all), but social media is everywhere, which is the problem. We need the social companies to act more responsibly or be forced to, it's as simple as that.
Brexit lies were an issue, Trump lies are still an issue, but they are nothing compared to the trouble that's been caused due to the conspiracy theories and misinformation that's been spread about the virus and vaccines. It needs to be stopped, and some people need to be silenced.
Freedom doesn't mean you have the right to risk lives, so be responsible or be forced into being responsible, for the sake of others.

I couldn’t agree with this more.

I mentioned this during our autopsies on the American election, but it’s worth repeating here. We used to be divided by nationality, religion, geography, politics, wealth and social class. But now I really think our divisions are ‘informational’ — i.e. you get your information from one source and see the world through that lens; I get it from somewhere else and see the world completely differently. For as long as that happens, I anticipate a continuation all the madness we’ve witnessed over the last decade.

And I don’t think it’s an easy fix. We can’t un-invent the Internet. I’ve just come to hope that the generations coming behind us — the ones that have only ever known a world with Facebook and Instagram and Twitter — are better equipped to deal with it than we were.

I used to get really frustrated when kids would check their phones while I ‘educated’ them on great movies. (I mean, seriously, who texts during Die Hard … it’s CRAZY). But after a while, I realised that they weren’t missing anything. Afterwards, they could recite plot and dialogue as well as I could. It’s like they’re wired differently. Their brains have evolved to cope with double-screen multi-tasking.

Maybe they will also evolve to spot the truth within the blizzard of bullshit that swirls around the Internet every day.

That’s the vain hope that helps me sleep at night.

Characteristically, I'm inclined to take a wider, longer view..
I think the difference social media has made, in social life, in its widest sense, is often inflated.
The Inquisition, and witch trials, went on for decades, across great stretches of the world, and the main communication technology of that time, was the printing press, which was hardly widely accessible, not least because there wasn't widespread literacy.

Here's a view of the witch trials, which places them in the specific socio-economic historical conditions: https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/4290-gossip-girls
It shows especially, how the meaning of gossip, was transformed during that time, to the often disparaging view familiar today.
I think the account has some things worth considering. However, I think the wider claims about gossip, workers' solidarity, and #MeToo, are more questionable.
Gossip, including the #MeToo phenomenon, especially the tendency to bundle together everything from verbal misunderstandings, to major acts of sexual violence, is not exactly helpful to many.
It contributes to a divisive climate, where the division isn't between true or false, and undermines due process.

Similar could be said of conspiracy theories, which come from various political directions, but those who purport to 'debunk' them, aren't necessarily much more helpful or different: https://theconversation.com/were-all-con...ords-33933
I would recommend the book by those authors, which I first read several years ago. Although some of the exchanges in the comments, shows how much confusion is created by the atmosphere of conspiracism, such that the clarity of the article is (wilfully?) misconstrued.

Possibly the worst instance of anti-conspiracists' being barely distinguishable from conspiracists, is a proposal made by someone who was close to President Obama, and is influential elsewhere, including in Britain, to "cognitively infiltrate", a wide range of groups deemed to be promoters of "false conspiracy theories": https://www.salon.com/2010/01/15/sunstein_2/

It might be highlighted that these links are all from before the present pandemic, but I think they're no less pertinent.
As for instance, in Britain and elsewhere, some of those most enthusiastic for lockdowns, haven't necessarily been helpful to seeing a way out of it, to something approximating previous social life.
In that first link, it is argued that describing #MeToo as itself a witch hunt, is "ironic", because obviously the historical witch hunts were overwhelmingly against women.
However, there are many subsequent historical phenomena that could be described, analogously, as witch hunts, that haven't been so targeted, such as the show trials in Stalinist Russia, McCarthyism, and the 'Cultural Revolution' in Maoist China: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4srwSkD05ws&t=24s for which there are still, often young apologists: https://uncommongroundmedia.com/gulags-g...sm-soviet/
Witch hunting from various directions certainly hasn't receded during the pandemic, including against anyone criticising lockdowns, or soberly questioning the original source of the virus.
This could be described as a continuation of 'cancel culture', for which some of the greatest enthusiasts are those in their teens, twenties, and thirties. Hence, I'm less inclined to think that younger generations are necessarily more resistant to tunnel vision.
I don't think there's any one answer. Certainly censorship makes underground martyrs, and would allow social media companies, governments, and state agencies, to exercise more power. Plus, similar to those who seem to want lockdown conditions to continue indefinitely, when and where would it stop. The solution being even worse than the problem.
The starting point can be, to contribute to creating an atmosphere, where the benefits of reasoned discussion, with creditable, empirical references, are demonstrated.
A situation that is not necessarily most appealing to state agencies, governments, and companies, social media and otherwise.

Every new discovery has failed to come to the fact that people are cunts that will misuse anything

I mean even the printing press was prob misused when it was invented

The fact that the Covid Deniers & Anti-Vaxxers refuse to accept scientific evidence even when they catch Covid & die is astonishing. The social media companies algorithms feed falsehoods to them and everything they disagree with is dismissed as some government conspiracy. I’m not in favour of compulsory vaccination BUT I would withdraw all taxpayer funded services from them and consider a lockdown for the unvaccinated (unless medically exempt) as Austria has done

The situation here in NI has worsened considerably, with the ambulance service saying they are now at breaking point!!

The chief medical officer was saying that among the main reasons (there were a number as there always are - not just a simple media answer) was the low uptake in vaccines (no longer acceptable) and the relaxation of the rules recently re night clubs etc - well who knew that would be an issue?? Yep correct everyone except the clowns in the assembly on - at the time - A Fosters watch!!

Robert Swann is the one I feel for in terms of the administrations response! His hands were tied while the DUP etc were arguing the toss over restrictions, rules etc. He and his dept, should have been given autonomy when it came to dealing with this crisis. The fact he had to be a frustrated bystander, while others played one upmanship, and couldn't reach agreement on what course of action was needed, wasted time, and then ultimately led to the wrong conclusions, such as relaxing the rules! If I remember correctly, R Swann and his advisors were not in lockstep with these decisions!

Man there will be a lot of 'turkeys coming home to roost' throughout the UK at the end of this! Add to all of this the new variant in omicron, and we may be headed down a dark place yet again. I saw an interview with an expert (a dirty word i know in some circles) where he said that he was worried about the potential for it to mutate to become a huge killer once again!

No disrespect, but I saw a comment - or two - that pointed to vaccinations remaining voluntary!! NO WAY!!

I'm not a fan of compulsory vaccinations, but I would perhaps consider some sort of IQ test for those unvaccinated, in order to ascertain their ability to make a sound judgement, although it is often the case of those with high intelligence that lack common-sense.
Far be it from me to disrespect the people of my local area, but when the local new visit Hull for example, & canvass opinion on vaccinations, they somehow pick out the daftest. Do the bright ones not make the edit, I wonder.

IF you are actually saying that either they can't or won't make the right decision due to IQ or anything else, Surely that means that in circumstances where society itself is impacted, they need to have those decisions taken out of their hands?? It happens all the time, why not in this most 'perilous' of circumstances we are all living through - for the greater good!

Sturgeon and Drakeford have sent Boris a joint letter outlining the measures they want to see taken in a joint approach to combating the new variant.

Hopefully Boris will manage to tear himself away from Peppa Pig long enough to read it

(29-11-2021 12:59 )hornball Wrote:  IF you are actually saying that either they can't or won't make the right decision due to IQ or anything else, Surely that means that in circumstances where society itself is impacted, they need to have those decisions taken out of their hands?? It happens all the time, why not in this most 'perilous' of circumstances we are all living through - for the greater good!

Yes, spot on, for the greater good. Many of our major cities have deprived areas, high levels of unemployment, & all the things that go with this, such as alcohol & drug abuse. Which is my next point. Whatever labels you want to put on it from recreational drugs, party drugs & at the extremes hard drugs. What testing, if any have these undergone ? I'll bet none come close to the get our vaccine drugs to be deemed safe. Yet many blindly smoke, swallow, snort & inject stuff, often without a second thought, bought off god knows who, with no clue what they're taking half the time.
Offer these people a vaccine, & it's no way, how do I know they are safe. This is just the adults, & I use the term loosely, they have children, & often more than they can adequately look after, let alone be able to educate them as teenagers to make sound choices about taking up the vaccine themselves, add to the mix, high levels of truancy, & you get generations of people who can't function well in our society, & as a result put themselves & others at risk.