Keir Starmer - and his miserable government

It's not the money. It's the fact the government are targeting the wrong people.

Going for OAP'S doesn't sit well with me and then whilst they were in opposition they fully backed the WASPI women. I can't believe that I agree with Diana Abbott.

Yet all the rich people haven't been affected much, there's not been a tax increase or any loopholes closed. And money & property will get moved around so that they avoid playing inheritance tax.

I quite agree Charle it dsoesn't sit well with me either. Not only thst what are they doing about the companies who probably still are not paying their corporation taxes?

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Would I be right in thinking that no government has ever closed those loopholes properly despite promising that they would???

I would think the only reason they haven't done so is because they are probably scared of the backlash from that elte rich community they would get if they did so and the amount of support/backing they would get in terms of donations when the rime comes to fight another election.

(18-12-2024 16:29 )Charlemagne Wrote:  It's not the money. It's the fact the government are targeting the wrong people.

Going for OAP'S doesn't sit well with me and then whilst they were in opposition they fully backed the WASPI women. I can't believe that I agree with Diana Abbott.

Yet all the rich people haven't been affected much, there's not been a tax increase or any loopholes closed. And money & property will get moved around so that they avoid playing inheritance tax.

I totally get what you're saying, esp about the rich, I do think more people in the UK would rather the rich had to pay higher taxes but one thing I would say, have spoken to family and friends who are under 30 and a lot are like "it's about the time OAP's are hit, they got the low house prices, low NHS waiting lists, the boom times of the 90's, benefits of freedom of movement."

In The Economist :
   

I'm not surprised at the government's stand on WASPIs. Non obligation of supposed pre election pledges once in government is hardly a new thing. It has been going on for time immemorial. The danger with the standard parties of government continually doing this in an era of social media manipulation is that the increasing fury created opens the door for parties such as Reform to advance and claim power.
The consequences of that would be seismic and disastrous.

(18-12-2024 15:53 )SecretAgent Wrote:  I also find it strange that the Conservatives delayed Post Office Scandal payments, Tainted Blood payments and the WASPI decision yet that seems to have been forgotten as well as their pre-election commitment to reduce National Insurance again. Where was the money coming from?

Labour are certainly making mistakes and failing to clearly explain their decision making. I do know someone who was affected by the WASPI decision yet she’s quite clear that she knew what was happening and planned accordingly.

On the Winter Fuel Payments changes my own mother has moaned about no longer getting it but goes strangely quiet when I remind her of her pension arrangement, the fact she’s nowhere near qualifying for pension credit, has thousands in the bank and saves about £400 a month. She’s 97!

Ah, whataboutery

But yes, I'm kinda on the fence with the WASPI thing.

However, it's the hypocrisy. You don't need to do that much googling to find pictures of Starmer, Reeves, Kendall etc on the campaign trail, 'standing firm behind the WASPI women', and even holding placards to that effect.

I get the feeling things are going to come to a head sooner or later wether that will impact within government or on the fringes remains to be seeen.

I remember Emily Maitlis once saying that as a society we have a fluffy bunny perception of pensioners and i think that is spot on. We look at them like grannies in their cardigans with, tissues up their sleeves when the reality is that was more our parents parents , the greatest & the silent generation (1901-1946). The majority of pensioners today are Boomers, who are the richest generation ever to exist, 27% just over 1 in 4 are millionaires.

Due to this living standards are so much higher as well: My Dad, his two brothers and my mum's brother were the main earners in their households, all of them retired, two of them over 70 and could still easily be doing a 9-5 in their respective jobs. My mum's brother is 70 and goes hill walking with me, last hill we did was a Munro, 3000 + feet and a near 6 hr round trip. We're an 80% service economy our pensioners aren't retired coal miners & dock wokers, anyone who wasn't a gangster in Peaky Blinders, they're IT consultants & Human Resources middle managers.

Even for the ones that aren't millionaires they still find themselves sitting on considerable assets, many boomers, like my parents & aunts/uncles are just themselves still living in the 3+ bedroom houses they raised their families in.

When the NHS & state pension were created for every person of pension age there was 20 of working age, today that number is now 3 and its only going to get worse.

Another perception issue we have is that we view the state pension in a way we view a private pension, a pot we pay into over our working life and are entitled to after retirement. The state pension is a benefit in the same way job seekers allowance or housing benefits, it is paid for by the working population. There are 12.9m pensioners in the UK, depending on when they retired, receiving between £9,175 & £11,973 a year of tax payer money & 1 in 4 are millionaires and its the only benefit thats triple locked.

On top of that the people paying those benefits are doing so in an enviroment when they are earning less & paying more, accounting for inflation, we are earning less than our parents did at our age & the price of a house has gone from 4× the average salary in the 80s to 8× today.

The famous Aneurin Bevan quote, the language of priorites is the religion of socialism, given that its his party that is currently in government, I don't see the priority in them giving millionaires and the many other well off pensioners £400 given everything else they get. When you have that 3:1 ratio universalism just isnt realistic.

People talk about taxing the rich, pensioners are the richest among us. The Corbyn and Sanders lot in The Guardian would have you believe that we could become a utopian society by skimming a little extra off the top of the 1% and becoming Scandanavia but that isnt how it works. Yes they should pay more but in the Scandanavian countries they have higher taxes across the board, thats the reality of effectively funding a state: everyone has to pay more.

In terms of The WASPI issue I agree that the biggest problem is the hypocrisy from Labour. After all again we are talking about the state pension, its extra money on top of their own private pension most of them won't need it. Its actually kind of wild that the ombudsman agreed with them, that the government should spend £10bn to compensate a tiny fraction of people, many of whom simply don't need it, for a change with in most cases had a 20 year run up.

Starmer said that 90% of woman knew about the change and WASPI chair Angela Madden hit back with this amazing quote: ""The fact that 90% of women had some general awareness of potential changes in the future does not mean they knew this would impact them personally."

(18-12-2024 23:13 )southsidestu Wrote:  The majority of pensioners today are Boomers, who are the richest generation ever to exist, 27% just over 1 in 4 are millionaires.

Ah statistics.

Except your interpretation is flawed...

Also how is the wealth broken down? i.e assets v disposable income.

https://x.com/alexharmstrong/status/1869...dbtXw&s=19

Ouch