Is Porn Prostitution?

^^^^^
Don't think the madam would be willing to pay you though..

I consider pornography to be two or more people performing sex acts on each other, or having sexual intercourse on film. I realise that what is, or is not pornographic is a huge grey area, which varies between the softcore and the hardcore, and that peoples opinions differ greatly.

I do not believe that the phone girls are performing sex acts for money, but rather simulating them. Unless you consider talking dirty over the phone as a sex act, which again is a matter of personal opinion. In my opinion, the only time I would consider the girls to be actually be performing sex acts is during a 2-4-1 when they occasionally caress, lick or suck each other’s breasts. However, I personally would not consider this to be pornography, though others may disagree.

I realise what the law defines as porn and prostitution, but surely that’s just a web of legal technicalities, and is not the purpose of this thread. I would like to find out peoples own opinions on the subject. Ideally I would like some professional pornstars (male & female) to post on this thread and air their opinions, as I believe that it would add a different dimension to the subject. I’m sure that not many of them consider themselves as prostitutes or escorts and if they did would it have made any difference to their career or not?

Interesting debate, but not a difficult one for me personally. The first thing to remember is that the term 'prostitution' applies only to the person offering their 'services', whereas offering someone money for the same is 'soliciting' and applies only to the punter.

The definition 'Pornography' is material whose primary purpose is sexual arousal, or the production of material for the same purpose. The last one is tricky, because arousal is subjective and therefore, will be different for everyone. Someone might get full on over a page 3 model in The Star, where others need to see penetration or insertion to get off.

HOW PROSTITUTION WORKS.
If an individual enters into a financial agreement with you to perform sexual acts, irrespective of whether you participate or just watch, they are commiting the act of prostitution and that is illegal. If you offer someone money to do the same, then you as the punter are guilty of soliciting an individual for the purposes of sex and that is illegal. Incidentally, even if you haven't done anything yet, any such agreement from either party is still illegal.

IS PORN PROSTITUTION?
IMHO, if they were the same, then we wouldn't have different definitions or different laws governing them. Porn is not you or I as customers paying actors to have sex for our sexual gratification, nor are those involved in the sexual scenes asking us for money in return for sex. Porn is where consenting adults have already agreed and signed disclaimers to the effect, that a film maker can record them having sex on camera and susequently have that product distributed. At no time have you or I as customers paid anyone to do anything, even when buying the finished product. Put it this way, you didn't pay Mr Kipling to make you an apple pie, did you? You simply happened to have bought an apple pie that he made. Anyway, the making of pornography, though not necessarily the selling or distribution of pornography (dependent on your location), is not illegal - prostitution is.

BABECHANNELS VS PORN
The babe channels have been brought up in the thread too, so I'll chuck my 2 cents worth in as well. These are the two which are closest to eachother in my opinion. If pornography is material whose primary purpose is sexual arousal, or the production of material for the same purpose, then this is the category into which the babechannels must ultimately fall. There are after all, several examples of babechannels girl doing porn and vice versa, so for some girls there is hadly any perceivable difference. Perhaps a suitable porn sub-category for Babechannels would be pseudo-sex, as performers only simulate sexual contact after all.

PROSTITUTION vs BABECHANNELS
Oh hell, I might as well add this to the topic as it will probably come up anyway. Like their cousins in the porn industry, babechannel girls are ostensibly contracted by their employers to give sexual performances on television/telephone, so I consider that 'the adult industry' in broad terms. Their contract is with their employer, not us, so we can't be guilty of soliciting a service when they've already been legally hired to provide same. However, they are not prostitutes because they are essentially soft porn 'performers', never having approached you or I offering sexual acts in return for our money. All we are doing is paying for the privilege of interacting with a performance.

So, no, I don't personally believe that porn is prostitution, nor would I think the girls on the babe channels are prostitutes if I was asked.

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(15-07-2010 12:07 )Dazwrexham Wrote:  I consider pornography to be two or more people performing sex acts on each other, or having sexual intercourse on film. I realise that what is, or is not pornographic is a huge grey area, which varies between the softcore and the hardcore, and that peoples opinions differ greatly.

I think porn is legally defined in the UK along the lines of material created for the purpose of causing sexual arousal, which seems pretty straightforward to me

Quote:Porn is where consenting adults have already agreed and signed disclaimers to the effect, that a film maker can record them having sex on camera and susequently have that product distributed

But only on the agreement they receive money to be filmed and specifically to have sex for that money.

I think some clarification is needed. Are we talking about the material, or the actress/tors who know full well that they are having sex as their job to earn money. Personally I am solely thinking of the people who turn up for work knowing full well they will be having sex and the reason is getting the money for it.

Put it another way, if they wasn't getting paid they wouldn't be doing it.


Makes you wonder why the law differentiates between having sex for money. All sounds like loopholes in law to me. Sexual semantics.

Ps - why are people turning this into an issue with the babe channel girls? I don't think the OP mentioned them and was solely talking about HC pornography. I might be wrong.

(15-07-2010 13:16 )loulo12 Wrote:  

Quote:Porn is where consenting adults have already agreed and signed disclaimers to the effect, that a film maker can record them having sex on camera and susequently have that product distributed

But only on the agreement they receive money to be filmed and specifically to have sex for that money.

They are both being paid to perform in a profession that is not illegal, to produce a product that although controlled in the UK, is not illegal to own or sell in the UK (although it is illegal to post R18 material of course). Adult movies can be made here, distributed here under licence and when purchased, the government get money from the industry by way of VAT. It is in the industry's best interests to make sure girls are healthy, looked after and not exploited, as their business wouldn't last long otherwise. I'm not naive enough to say bad things don't happen fromm time to time, but nothing is perfect.

Prostitution on the other hand, is illegal. Now don't quote me on this as it's just speculation, but I imagine it is illegal because of the way in which vulnerable people can be dragged into it. Girls can be forced into it through addiction and therefore the drug trade is perpetuated, by way of kidnap and trafficking or even be sold into it by desperate families. That is why, I suspect, prostitution and making money from the proceeds (all very illegally tax-free of course) from prostitution are illegal.

They really are two entirely different things.

(15-07-2010 13:16 )loulo12 Wrote:  I think some clarification is needed. Are we talking about the material, or the actress/actors who know full well that they are having sex as their job to earn money. Personally I am solely thinking of the people who turn up for work knowing full well they will be having sex and the reason is getting the money for it. Put it another way, if they wasn't getting paid they wouldn't be doing it.

Again, the actors are doing absolutely nothing illegal, nor are they exploiting anyone or in turn being exploited. If the weren't getting paid for it, I very much doubt they'd do it for free unless they just loved people to see them shagging.

Would you work for nothing?

(15-07-2010 13:16 )loulo12 Wrote:  Makes you wonder why the law differentiates between having sex for money. All sounds like loopholes in law to me.

You seriously see no difference between porn and prostitutes? That's kind of incredible to me mate - no offence. We're talking about consenting adults being filmed on the one hand, against a majority of women caught up in supporting a drug habit or being forced into a lifestyle they wouldn't choose if they had the choice. Another problem that prostitutes face is the very real danger of assault, rape (it happens) and of course, murder. Remember the laws against prostitution are there not just to punish, but hopefully to prevent women from entering the profession in the first place.

(15-07-2010 13:16 )loulo12 Wrote:  Ps - why are people turning this into an issue with the babe channel girls? I don't think the OP mentioned them and was solely talking about HC pornography. I might be wrong.

The babe channels were already briefly mentioned by thinwhiteduke, hence my inclusion of the topic in my own post. However, I think I have given the main question a fairly detailed answer have I not?

Thank you very much for my nomination in
Best Cap or Cap Set Of The Year 2013
for Dannii Harwood Posts 781 & 782

(15-07-2010 14:12 )Shady Cee Wrote:  Prostitution on the other hand, is illegal. Now don't quote me on this as it's just speculation, but I imagine it is illegal because of the way in which vulnerable people can be dragged into it. Girls can be forced into it through addiction and therefore the drug trade is perpetuated, by way of kidnap and trafficking or even be sold into it by desperate families. That is why, I suspect, prostitution and making money from the proceeds (all very illegally tax-free of course) from prostitution are illegal.

Sorry, I will quote you on it

Prostitution/being a prostitute is legal. It's legal to pay for and have sex with a prostitute unless the prostitute has been coerced/forced into it or is, of course, underage.

If you're a prostitute it's perfectly legal to live off your earnings, but it's illegal for third-parties (i.e. pimps, brothel owners etc) to live off the proceeds of prostitution.

Quote:They are both being paid to perform in a profession that is not illegal

Yes I read that, and if you speaking from purely a legal view point then fair enough.

But like I say the law is full of loop holes and semantics.

At the root of it, it is somebody selling sex for money.

Quote:but I imagine it is illegal because of the way in which vulnerable people can be dragged into it. Girls can be forced into it through addiction and therefore the drug trade is perpetuated, by way of kidnap and trafficking or even be sold into it by desperate families.

I'd imagine so can porn. How many porn actors do it for the money because they are addicted to stuff? How many have signed contracts and are ordered to have sex with whoever they are ordered to and turn to drunk and drugs because of the lifestyle? Is Tracy Lords prude of her career? and what did she blame it on? I don't think the porn industry is the glossy safe place people seem to think it is.

Your talking as if it's just the odd one or two incidents to go wrong. I was watching a programme on tv about a wannabe porn star went for an interview at a 'respectable' porn studio (sadly can't remember the programme), first thing the fella did when he walked into the office was turn her round and fuck her. Wasn't even being filmed, didn't even ask if she minded, she was there to be fucked and so he did, and this is with the documentary camera crew there!! Later when filming a scene he was choking her so bad that the documentary makers had to step in. Goodness knows what it would have been like when they weren't there, wish I could remember the title. To alot of porn people, women are just an asset, a peice of meat. There's always lenty to replace them

There was another programme, I think it was following a very well known porn maker in this country. Perfectly up and above board makers, she went to do the scene, there where three blokes there, one for the scene then the two others, however didn't stop the other two from fucking her for no apparently reason, they girl just placidly took it as if it was part of the job. The documentary maker ask her about it, she just shrugged, but it was clear that this girl and the other one above just weren't in their right minds.

I have read recently that Christ Marks has just dissapeard and gave up the industry, it seems she had very bad issues, over a man leaving her, this may have been the reason she went into porn from self worthlessness, even writing gloomy poems.

Porns a seedy industry, always has been.

Quote:, against a majority of women caught up in supporting a drug habit or being forced into a lifestyle they wouldn't choose if they had the choice.

Dude, your generalising here. What's your evidence that most are drug addicts? Most porn actresses have no financial need? all prostitutes are crack whores? I've actually known prostitutes (though never been with one), not one where on drugs, they did it because the money was better than any job they could have got. One was to pay for education. Others in the past because they have had babies to feed and want to buy them nice things for Christmas.

And rapes and murders don't happen in the porn world? Dude you have a seriously rose tinted view of it. God knows what goes on in east European country's or even in Britain and America. Your top porn studios may be absolutely fine. Buy how many are there compared to the amount of porn produced?

It still boils down to people selling sex for money. Technically by law you have a point. To me that's just legal lop holes. To me (and just personal opinion) prostitutes sell sex for money, and so do the porn actress. I fail to see where one should be legal and the other illegal. You mention drug addicts, I'd say at least they have a reason for doing it, they probably don't want too, porn people do it pure and simply for the money, with (according to you) no other reason than that, it's a career choice. To me that actually makes it worse than forced into it by circumstances.

Who knows, probably they are in porn instead of on the streets, because they have better bodies and looks. May be no more of a difference than that.

(15-07-2010 14:59 )DanniPandemos Wrote:  Prostitution/being a prostitute is legal. It's legal to pay for and have sex with a prostitute unless the prostitute has been coerced/forced into it or is, of course, underage.

If you're a prostitute it's perfectly legal to live off your earnings, but it's illegal for third-parties (i.e. pimps, brothel owners etc) to live off the proceeds of prostitution.

Damn, you don't even have a point

I always thought prostitution was illegal too.