The Ashes and Cricket World Cup Discussion Thread

Cosmonuat, sometimes your comments make me smile....No, really.

Did you not consider for one minute that the Aussie management would put out this (alledged) release about Ponting's finger worsening to save a man who has served his country royally as a batting stalwart and long-term captain from the ignominy of being publicly dropped?

Would that not be the prudent thing to do?

Given that the Aussie press and most of the public are baying for his blood, would a statement about a "worsening finger" not only give the Aussie masses what it wants, but save Ponting any further embarrassment?

Or are you the sort of person that actually believed Fergie, every time he said that Ryan Giggs had pulled/strained a hammy and couldn't play for Wales, yet turned out for Utd only 3 days later?

No doubt he needed an op and now that he's not playing he'll have it, but ask any Aussie journo if he believes Ponting's finger has dramatically worsened since the last test started. I think we both know the answer to that one.

(30-12-2010 10:24 )Charlemagne Wrote:  Australia have enough good players to provide a quality test team, but the selectors aren't picking them. Where's Brett Lee gone?

phil hughes, johnson, beer etc

they have not produce quality players to replace lee, mcgrath, waugh brothers, hayden, gilchrist (probably the best keeperbatsman) etc

they have no cpt inwaiting like strauss. aussie cricket is in the state england was when they lost to new zealand in the late 90's early 2000's. ducan fletcher turned it around but the 2006/7 tour was a disgrace, peter moores was no good along with pieterson as skipper who was trying to call the shots thus affected his form. the ecb finally found a good coah and cpt. the coach is from the same school of thinking as the british tack cycling coachs preperation is key. the make sure that the players have the best possible preperation and then its down to them to do business. colly is on his last legs because morgan will probably play in the test series in uk.

Lee has retired from test cricket but is still around for the ODI if fit.

The coach and skipper combo is great and we will go on from here and become the number one test side I believe, the players are all young enough to have good runs in the side and there is backup in reserve, a bit like the Aussie side of the late 90s and early 00s they could of put out a decent 3rd XI so to speak and now we can at least do something like that. Let the good times role for us English cricket supporters.

(30-12-2010 14:40 )colino Wrote:  Did you not consider for one minute that the Aussie management would put out this (alledged) release about Ponting's finger worsening to save a man who has served his country royally as a batting stalwart and long-term captain from the ignominy of being publicly dropped?

Would that not be the prudent thing to do?

No. It's not something that Australians worry about.

Ponting will have to be left out eventually anyway and everyone knows it, because nobody can go on forever. When he's left out there will be no cover ups or subterfuge because Australian selectors never find that kind of thing necessary and have never bothered with it. To Australians tough decisions are just part of the game.

(30-12-2010 14:40 )colino Wrote:  Given that the Aussie press and most of the public are baying for his blood, would a statement about a "worsening finger" not only give the Aussie masses what it wants, but save Ponting any further embarrassment?

The Aussie press and public are not baying for Ponting's blood, but are mostly generally supportive of him. They know it's not fair to blame him for a poor team. The big debate in the Aussie press is whether the selectors blundered by allowing Ponting to play with a broken finger when that only made the injury worse. Tim Neilson has however insisted on defending that decision, saying that on the information available at that time they thought it was worth the risk.

It's easy to be wise after the event, but when any sportsman plays with pain killing injections it's always possible that it can lead to further problems, because if the injury gets worse the player can't feel that happening.

Ponting is not embarrassed and will not have any problem when he is stood down from the captaincy and/or the team. He knows his time will come, just as everyone else knows it, so there is nothing to be embarrassed about.

If you think that when Ponting is dropped he will look to cover it with some excuse you will be disappointed, as I don't think Ponting would ever allow anything like that to happen (even if the selectors thought such a ruse worth bothering with, which they won't).

Some people saw it coming that if Ponting played in Melbourne he would worsen the injury and rule himself out for Sydney. Here are comments taken from Australia's Daily Telegraph, published before the Melbourne test and already commenting that if he played in that match Ponting could be a non-starter when it came to Sydney:

"AUSTRALIAN captain Ricky Ponting looks a certain starter for the the Boxing Day Test against England at the MCG despite his fractured finger.
Ponting trained well at the MCG today and appeared to have no difficulty in fielding and throwing drills. The Australian skipper will have pain-killing injections before the match but risks being wiped out of the potential series decider at the SCG from January 3 if he cops another blow on the injury."

"Leading sports doctor, former Cricket Australia staffer Peter Larkins, said he would be stunned if Ponting did not play in Melbourne, but he cautioned that the possible series-deciding Sydney Test might be a different matter.
Australia's first training session will be held at the MCG this morning, but Ponting is unlikely to attempt batting until tomorrow. "The pain is easy to control," Larkins said. "It will be strapped and the pain will be blocked with an anaesthetic. The problem is that the small finger of the left hand is exposed for right-handed batsmen. The area will be numb from the anaesthetic, so it won't hurt. But there will be loss of control. The danger is that he gets another bad whack and the fracture moves out of position. That's trouble for the next Test."

(30-12-2010 19:04 )cosmonaut Wrote:  

(30-12-2010 14:40 )colino Wrote:  Did you not consider for one minute that the Aussie management would put out this (alledged) release about Ponting's finger worsening to save a man who has served his country royally as a batting stalwart and long-term captain from the ignominy of being publicly dropped?

Would that not be the prudent thing to do?

No. It's not something that Australians worry about.

Ponting will have to be left out eventually anyway and everyone knows it, because nobody can go on forever. When he's left out there will be no cover ups or subterfuge because Australian selectors never find that kind of thing necessary and have never bothered with it. To Australians tough decisions are just part of the game.

(30-12-2010 14:40 )colino Wrote:  Given that the Aussie press and most of the public are baying for his blood, would a statement about a "worsening finger" not only give the Aussie masses what it wants, but save Ponting any further embarrassment?

The Aussie press and public are not baying for Ponting's blood, but are mostly generally supportive of him. They know it's not fair to blame him for a poor team. The big debate in the Aussie press is whether the selectors blundered by allowing Ponting to play with a broken finger when that only made the injury worse. Tim Neilson has however insisted on defending that decision, saying that on the information available at that time they thought it was worth the risk.

It's easy to be wise after the event, but when any sportsman plays with pain killing injections it's always possible that it can lead to further problems, because if the injury gets worse the player can't feel that happening.

Ponting is not embarrassed and will not have any problem when he is stood down from the captaincy and/or the team. He knows his time will come, just as everyone else knows it, so there is nothing to be embarrassed about.

If you think that when Ponting is dropped he will look to cover it with some excuse you will be disappointed, as I don't think Ponting would ever allow anything like that to happen (even if the selectors thought such a ruse worth bothering with, which they won't).

Fyi, the "ruse" which you refer to as not being used has in fact been used by the Australians many, many times. For one, Matthew Hayden's sudden retirement announcement a few years ago (after a poor run of form with the bat) was widely recognised by all and sundry as being made AFTER being told by the selectors that his services would be no longer required, without it being made public, so that he could leave on his own terms after a distinguished career. Mark Taylor gave up his captaincy and his place in the team in similar circumstances, to name but two.

If you think that The Australian board don't behave in a sympathetic manner towards players that have worn the baggy green with distinction for many years, then you are quite, quite wrong.

Moreover, if your theory that "the ruse just doesn't happen" is correct, could you explain how (particularly in Australian cricket) the top, aged Australian players nearly always seem to retire, without (apparently) giving the selectors a chance to discard them? (before you pick me up on this point, i'm not saying that it's the case for ALL players, clearly some retire entirely of their own volition) Or do you think that it's some kind of freaky, continually recurring coincidence? I think not. The Aussie selectors do it, because they are quite rightly mindful of the player's standing in the game and his legacy to it once he retires. Ponting comes into this catergory more than most.

He might well return to one day cricket (i never said he wouldn't, btw) but the ONLY way he'll return to the test arena as player and captain is if the Aussies can't find anybody suitable or good enough to replace him in the interim. That would be a true indictment on the current state of Australian cricket, and quite possibly on Ponting himself.

I'm sure the Australian selectors wanted Ponting to play in Sydney and I think it's likely he'll be captain for the World Cup too. It's a shame for him that his finger injury has ruled him out of this test as it seems highly likely that it would have been his last.

Since Australia don't play test cricket again until August, you would think that the selectors will want to start afresh then, although the fact that there's no clear cut successor means that you can't absolutely 100% rule out Ponting continuing as captain even then.

who gives a flying rat arse about ponting and his broken finger. its an excuse for him to miss the humiliation of an ashes series loss and be the 1st aussie skipper to lose the ashes on home soil in 24yrs. their next test series will see alot of changes to the squad.

(31-12-2010 12:20 )bigguy01 Wrote:  its an excuse for him to miss the humiliation of an ashes series loss and be the 1st aussie skipper to lose the ashes on home soil in 24yrs.

Ponting has already accepted that as captain he has failed in an Ashes series for the 3rd time. He said exactly that at a press conference. So having accepted that he's failed in the series, it's too late for him to try and find a way of not failing. It's also not a humiliation since Australia have been a poor side in this series and it's hard to see how someone else being captain would have prevented England from retaining the Ashes.

Yes aaron is right, Ponting has already admitted to failure in the series and going by his last press conference he appears to be shouldering the blame for it, even though he really doesn't have to. You can't say it's the captaincy of the team which has let Australia down.