UK Riots

(10-08-2011 16:43 )iamthatjack Wrote:  ...

You just seem to be digging yourself a bigger hole,racism is not just about colour,and unless you were actually in that minicab there is no way that you know the facts,this is how rumours start and the truth gets somewhat distorted.

i hate all this political bullshite coming from the mps. they should allow the police to do what is nesscessary to stop the riots.

greenwich council are seeking to evict those that are convict of the rioting same with salford city council.

the excuses for the riots: no jobs, no money, no hope, no future, cuts made the government are pathetic.

So long as you all realise that the poilce are not 100% angels / perfect, they have and will make fatal mistakes and will barely address them (I consider this a mistake until proven otherwise).

The Stockwell shooting is an example

Posh boy Cameron statements on Wednsday morning:

CAMERON:Nothing is off the table. There are contingency plans for water cannon to be used at 24 hours notice.

So if the rioters/looters can be persuaded to hang around for 24 hours the water canon will arrive maybe!! What planet is Cameron on.

CAMERON:There is evidence that a more robust approach to policing in London resulted in a quieter night in the capital

But 3 people died in Birmingham, Manchester city centre wrecked, riots in Liverpool, Leicester.... Obviously these are not important if they're not in London they don't count.

CAMERON:On police funding: We won't do anything that will reduce the amount of visible policing on our streets.

So all the swingeing cuts in police budgets and warnings from cheif constables of manpower cuts was all a joke then?

Should have stayed on holiday taking photo opportunities with Italian waitresses because our PM is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard when you need leadership

If the police acted heroically, or Mark acted inappropriately, surely we wold know by now?

But typical press and police, we hear little bits of news about the incident, hoping it goes under the radar of many, such as the fact that the police shot themselves and MArk didn't shoot at all.

You need to do your own research into the police and the media and their portrayals of the news, or what they want you to think is the news. You should never take what the press are saying as the whole truth.

For instance, the media talk about the soldiers that are dying in Afghanistan, and yet they don't talk about the murdered and raped Afghan people. Millions die there and in Iraq, and yet all we hear about is the 1000s of British soldiers (which of course, I am not dismissing as important news, they are terrible losses) but the whole truth is never presented, you need to find it yourself. The same goes for the Mark Duggan shooting.

Good to see the arson bastards are being caught and held without bail.

(10-08-2011 05:51 )iamthatjack Wrote:  Its so easy for Caucasians to dismiss racism, you never experience it to the extent everyone else does, you can never understand

Nobody has dismissed 'racism', we've dismissed 'presumption of racism'.

How do you reconcile your decrying of racism when you gladly demonstrate your own discrimination against a huge nationwide group of men and women of all ages (and races), based on a few experiences - for each of which you would no doubt not have a full background on - with a tiny fraction of police officers.

(10-08-2011 17:15 )iamthatjack Wrote:  So long as you all realise that the poilce are not 100% angels / perfect, they have and will make fatal mistakes and will barely address them (I consider this a mistake until proven otherwise).

The Stockwell shooting is an example

Where has anybody suggested that the Police are perfect or can do no wrong? I'm not sure you're fully understanding where some of us are arguing from. I'm not 'sticking up' for the Police, I'm simply trying to point out that your assumption that Police are guilty until proven innocent of racial discrimination is absurd.

You have NO reason to think this particular incident is racially motivated other than your own discrimination.

(10-08-2011 12:25 )Sooky™ Wrote:  ...
Racism is not just about skin colour. Scots, Welsh, Irish, French, Germans, Americans, Jews (the list goes on). These people (who are often predominantly caucasian) all are subject to racial/xenophobic feelings etc by English people (not all, I hasten to add)
...

Whoa hold on there, 'by English people', it works the other way as well you know. The English get it worse as we get from it everyone, ALL of the above, plus the Australians, Indians, Pakistanis etc. I've had several bad experiences in Wales due to being English, but - iamthatjack - I don't for a second think that that behavior is endemic to the Welsh.

(10-08-2011 16:43 )iamthatjack Wrote:  I don't condemn the police based on conjecture, I've seen and experienced it first hand. It's no coincidence that a lot of non-whites hate the police.

Your experiences, whatever they are, are not connected to this and so are irrelevant. You do not know the facts of this situation and so your points are conjecture.
And no, it is no coincidence that a lot of non-whites hate the police, when you consider the fact that a lot of them have been raised to have this negative viewpoint as a result of past problems and issues - the self-perpetuating problem

iamthatjack Wrote:If Mark had done something in the cab to lead to his death, surely that would have been released straight away, showing that the police did well and acted correctly. Yet nothing has been said. Don't tell me investigations etc need to be done, if he was acting untoward at the time, we would have known. Before you think to the contrary, I don't justify or condone any of the violence, but I can see why they have resorted to it.

Would this have applied if he had been white?

iamthatjack Wrote:Racism is about skin colour.
Xenophobia is hatred for people form certain countries.

You need to re-educate yourself on the definition of racism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism

It is not simply about skin colour. That's simply one example of it, but all to often the only example people think of.

iamthatjack Wrote:You say it's easy to 'its easy to throw the race card' but until you have actually experienced it and know what you are talking about regarding race, you really can't comment, but of course you will just dismiss this again because you know all about racism.

I have experienced discrimination and racism (by its actual definition, not the definition you ascribe to) so I do know what it's like. I also have not stated that I know all about racism, simply that you don't understand it as much as you seem to think.

iamthatjack Wrote:I've never claimed, and no one has, that these riots are race related

You have repeatedly accused the police of being inherently racist. Why mention this, unless to imply the problem is race related? And plenty of other people have been quoted in the press/news broadcasts with the same paranoid outbursts. How can you expect change in the met police (which does have a dark and discriminatory past) to change when people will continually have nothing but negative feelings towards them regardless, tarring all with the same brush? Change has to occur on both sides. Why is it fine for a white person to be randomly stopped by a police officer for being in an area rife with unrest/violence, but the moment it happens to someone of colour then it is classed as 'racist' or 'profiling'? That is discrimination in itself
How can a police force be expected to maintain law and order under that much ridiculous scrutiny?

iamthatjack Wrote:the initial riot (after the peaceful protest) in Tottenham was after a girl was beaten by a fair few policemen, for either throwing a stone or a champagne bottle. Now I will be the first to say she was 100% wrong to do anything of the sort, but would it have been difficult to arrest her? Did they need to beat her?

Again, conjecture. Hearsay and 'witness' reports are not the same as fact. It may well have been the case, or it may have been less than what has been described. These things happen and things get exaggerated - an example being the person last night giving an eye witness account of the events in manchester stating there were "around 2,000 rioters" in Piccadilly Gardens. Something which all other reports point towards as being false. There hasn't been a single group as large as that in any of the events. People aren't reliable witnesses during high pressure events

iamthatjack Wrote:So long as you all realise that the poilce are not 100% angels / perfect

So long as you realise that not all of them are racist bigots with an agenda of their own

(10-08-2011 17:48 )lucent-x Wrote:  Whoa hold on there, 'by English people', it works the other way as well you know.

I merely stated it that way as the events this thread is relating to are happening in England - but yes, the English are also subjected to racism.
But not worse than anyone else - the point is every nation/creed/colour/belief is subjected to racism and discrimination. Why do people wish to have some form of ownership over it?

Well it looks like i'll be protecting my neighbourhood again tonight.
I'm just glad that I have my military training to rely upon.
I got a lot of thanks from some of neighbours today for making a stance against these idiots. I just said to them it wasn't needed.
If the riots continue until the weekend, i'm confident that the Army will be brought in then.

(10-08-2011 18:04 )SYBORG666 Wrote:  ...
If the riots continue until the weekend, i'm confident that the Army will be brought in then.

I think it'll peter out now, but in any case I can't really see the Goverment sending the army in.

Let's hope that it then doesn't flair up again when some theiving shits claim they've been 'mistreated' by the Police.