Poll: The Posting of Sensitive Material

For what it's worth, here's my opinion.

The key thing is to focus on the endgame - what we actually want to get out of all this. I think for most people here the endgame is the adult channels being given more freedom in general, with parents being expected to actually be responsible for their own children! So if there is the odd flash every now and then who cares? If two (or more) presenters are having fun with each other who cares? If the encrypted channels want to show R18 who cares? If you tune in to the adult channels then expect to see ADULT material! And if you can't be bothered to figure out how to use the existing protections to protect or remove adult channels from your EPG then don't expect the government to do the job for you.

So, how best to achieve this?

Well, I think we can all agree that over the past few years things have got worse, not better. I also think there is general agreement that a large part of the problem is the channels themselves not being willing to stand their ground.

If we closed this forum, and all others like it, today, would it lead to an improvement in the broadcasting? Of course not.

So doing nothing changes nothing.

If a channel broadcasts something it shouldn't then someone, somewhere, will comment on it, so any self-imposed restraint here is ultimately fruitless. All it does is push away the people who come here in faint hope of finding the odd spicy moment that slipped through as they search elsewhere for the clips they want.

If we went completely the other way and posted every slip that can be found then sure, it may give Ofcom an easy way to monitor the channels' output. But then one of two things will happen - either the channels will get fined out of existence, or they will actually stand up for themselves and argue their case.

So. Do nothing, change nothing. Probably leading to a slow death of the channels.

Or, post everything. Risk the quick death of the channels for the chance to actually change the rules for the better.

My vote would be to post everything, because I do NOT believe that the channels in their current form are worth saving anyway. If you're happy with the channels as they are then the risk may be too great for you.

Incidentally, I'm pretty sure all complaints to Ofcom have to be within a time-limit (I think 8 weeks of broadcast), so if posting is to be restricted then it could be just for that period, rather than permanently.

Cheers

Thanks for the support, eccles

As for my opinion, it's no secret. I just didn't want it to seem like I was trying to persuade voters either way, but for the record I'm not in favour of banning sensitive material. As for why I even asked, this was because it's already happening to a large degree. If admin and the mods see fit to remove sensitive caps and clips, I thought it was only right that the members were allowed to air their opinion on the unsaid ruling.

I think the votes so far speak for themselves.

(13-12-2011 12:48 )Grawth Wrote:  For what it's worth, here's my opinion.

The key thing is to focus on the endgame - what we actually want to get out of all this. I think for most people here the endgame is the adult channels being given more freedom in general, with parents being expected to actually be responsible for their own children! So if there is the odd flash every now and then who cares? If two (or more) presenters are having fun with each other who cares? If the encrypted channels want to show R18 who cares? If you tune in to the adult channels then expect to see ADULT material! And if you can't be bothered to figure out how to use the existing protections to protect or remove adult channels from your EPG then don't expect the government to do the job for you.

So, how best to achieve this?

Well, I think we can all agree that over the past few years things have got worse, not better. I also think there is general agreement that a large part of the problem is the channels themselves not being willing to stand their ground.

If we closed this forum, and all others like it, today, would it lead to an improvement in the broadcasting? Of course not.

So doing nothing changes nothing.

If a channel broadcasts something it shouldn't then someone, somewhere, will comment on it, so any self-imposed restraint here is ultimately fruitless. All it does is push away the people who come here in faint hope of finding the odd spicy moment that slipped through as they search elsewhere for the clips they want.

If we went completely the other way and posted every slip that can be found then sure, it may give Ofcom an easy way to monitor the channels' output. But then one of two things will happen - either the channels will get fined out of existence, or they will actually stand up for themselves and argue their case.

So. Do nothing, change nothing. Probably leading to a slow death of the channels.

Or, post everything. Risk the quick death of the channels for the chance to actually change the rules for the better.

My vote would be to post everything, because I do NOT believe that the channels in their current form are worth saving anyway. If you're happy with the channels as they are then the risk may be too great for you.

Incidentally, I'm pretty sure all complaints to Ofcom have to be within a time-limit (I think 8 weeks of broadcast), so if posting is to be restricted then it could be just for that period, rather than permanently.

Cheers

Put quite simply, that is the most logical, sensible and finest post on the subject I've seen in a long time.

I also happen to agree with Grawths post, it's all or nothing now for me as far as the babe channels are concerned and if that means anything goes posting wise then so be it, it's time to declare war on these unconstitutional, unelected shower of pricks, I've personally had it with this watered down half pint shandy pish, if the babe channels were sponsored by beer, it'd probably taste like rat's piss

Good points Grawth.

Some of the channels dont seem to give a shit as long as the money keeps coming in and they dont have much competition. With other sources of income they might not even think it in their interest to broadcast 12 hours hardcore for £5.

As ScottishBloke says, if this was beer wed still be drinking Watneys Red Barrell. Spirtis would only be available in specially licenced premises with a maximum of one per town, and then only if accompanied by your parents, off sales would be banned, and there would be a thriving market in distilled white spirit.

(13-12-2011 12:48 )Grawth Wrote:  For what it's worth, here's my opinion.

The key thing is to focus on the endgame - what we actually want to get out of all this. I think for most people here the endgame is the adult channels being given more freedom in general, with parents being expected to actually be responsible for their own children! So if there is the odd flash every now and then who cares? If two (or more) presenters are having fun with each other who cares? If the encrypted channels want to show R18 who cares? If you tune in to the adult channels then expect to see ADULT material! And if you can't be bothered to figure out how to use the existing protections to protect or remove adult channels from your EPG then don't expect the government to do the job for you.

So, how best to achieve this?

Well, I think we can all agree that over the past few years things have got worse, not better. I also think there is general agreement that a large part of the problem is the channels themselves not being willing to stand their ground.

If we closed this forum, and all others like it, today, would it lead to an improvement in the broadcasting? Of course not.

So doing nothing changes nothing.

If a channel broadcasts something it shouldn't then someone, somewhere, will comment on it, so any self-imposed restraint here is ultimately fruitless. All it does is push away the people who come here in faint hope of finding the odd spicy moment that slipped through as they search elsewhere for the clips they want.

If we went completely the other way and posted every slip that can be found then sure, it may give Ofcom an easy way to monitor the channels' output. But then one of two things will happen - either the channels will get fined out of existence, or they will actually stand up for themselves and argue their case.

So. Do nothing, change nothing. Probably leading to a slow death of the channels.

Or, post everything. Risk the quick death of the channels for the chance to actually change the rules for the better.

My vote would be to post everything, because I do NOT believe that the channels in their current form are worth saving anyway. If you're happy with the channels as they are then the risk may be too great for you.

Incidentally, I'm pretty sure all complaints to Ofcom have to be within a time-limit (I think 8 weeks of broadcast), so if posting is to be restricted then it could be just for that period, rather than permanently.

Cheers

Here's where the problem lies with your idea. We start posting everything, then a channel producer asks the mods and admins to erase the revealing content, leaving us exactly where we are now. Look at Red Light. They've already told us not to post anything from the nightshows until at least eight weeks after the air date, so in a sense we really can't post everything. The other channels will start to erase any revealing moments as well. Babestation is the only channel that doesn't seem to mind what we post, yet for some odd reason they have tamed their shows considerably, as to not rock the boat. Here's my idea for them, if they CAN rock the boat, then frickin rock the damn thing!!!

isnt there a way we could have a members only sections for certain posters for 8 weeks and then after that could be posted into the wider forum.

(14-12-2011 17:19 )HannahsPet Wrote:  isnt there a way we could have a members only sections for certain posters for 8 weeks and then after that could be posted into the wider forum.

Interesting idea, probably some difficulties with it, but worth trying to find alternative solutions.

As for 'all or nothing', for either the babechannels or for ourselves on this forum. I understand it is born from frustration with the levels of content right now, but I still enjoy what we have (hopefully that does not lead to being slagged off) and think a foolhardy tactic would simply play into Ofcom's hands leading eventually to looking at bluescreens, just as we did with Bangbabes. It's still not clear if we are looking at a 'slow death' or not. Dayshifts still seem viable (go figure) and some channels are expanding. I still remember predictions following the demise of bangmedia, that all the channels would be closed by this time.

Others have expressed that we use common sense in how we draw attention to slips etc, and that seems fair enough. (also the careful approach is consistent with voting 'no' to a total ban on posting sensitive material. This poll result wouldn't conflict with selective modding for example.)

Screw Ofcom rite in the wrong 'un!!!!! Leave the forum alone.....

This is from the Ofcom site

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/broadca...standards/

To summarise:

Procedures for investigating breaches of content standards for television and radio :

Time limits on making a complaint

1.13 Complainants should submit their complaint to Ofcom within 20 working days of the broadcast of the relevant programme or of the occurrence of the matter complained of. Ordinarily, Ofcom will not accept a complaint which is made after this deadline.

1.14 Where a complaint is submitted later than 20 working days after broadcast, complainants should explain why the complaint was not submitted earlier. Ofcom will then consider all relevant factors (including the complainant's explanation for the delay in submitting the complaint and the limited time periods during which broadcasters are required to keep recordings)(-12-) in deciding whether or not Ofcom should investigate the complaint despite the delay in its submission.

1.15 Where a complainant has previously complained directly to the broadcaster, the complainant should wait to see if he/she is satisfied with the broadcaster's response (in accordance with the broadcaster's own complaints procedures) before referring it to Ofcom.(-13-) If not, the complainant should refer his/her complaint to Ofcom (with the broadcaster's response) as soon as possible, and in any event within 20 working days of the final response or determination by the relevant broadcaster under its procedures. If the complainant has not received a response to, or a determination of, his/her complaint from the broadcaster, the complainant should submit it to Ofcom within 20 working days of the time by which he/she could reasonably have expected a response or determination by the broadcaster under its procedures.

1.16 Where a complainant submits a complaint simultaneously to the broadcaster and to Ofcom, Ofcom will not normally proceed to consider the complaint until the broadcaster has first had an opportunity to resolve the complaint itself under its procedures. In such a case, the complainant should inform Ofcom when he/she has received the broadcaster's response or determination, and confirm whether he/she wishes to proceed with his/her complaint. (Time will start to run from the date of the broadcaster's response/determination as set out in paragraph 1.15 above).



Points to note.

The official time limit for complaints is 20 working days. In other words 4 weeks.

Ofcom (in 1.13) categorically states that it will not accept complaints after this.

And then (in 1.14) details circumstances when it will! So, nice to see the usual double standards applying.

However, for the most part, complaints must be submitted within a month.

So, suggestions for moving forward. Allow any posting of any slip, provided that it happened more than, say, 6 weeks before the date of posting. If anyone posts about a slip before that deadline, warn them the first time and then ban them if they do it again.

I'm not sure what the copyright position is, but on a channel that is Free To Air or Free To View, I don't see how they would legally be able to demand removal of specific clips. They could potentially demand ALL clips be removed - which would clearly shut down any publicity or goodwill they get from the forum, but not SPECIFIC clips.

Also, consider this, if we have a bank of slips here, posted after 6 weeks, and it turns out Ofcom got NO complaints about them then it would suggest that offense is not being caused. A good argument for the channels who can say "well we accidentally broadcast clip A, B, C, . . . . X, and Y and you got no complaints, so the one complaint you got about clip Z cannot possibly demostrate 'widespread harm or offence'."

It even offeres the chance to test whether Ofcom or others use this forum to find things to complain about - you could let a clip through early once in a while and see if that then gets complained about! Which again allows the channels to go to Ofcom and say that the people complaining about these clips clearly weren't watching the original broadcast, they just get information from the net.

I agree with you ^, but knowing Ofcom, they could just decide to change how they operate, and could easily fine a channel after six weeks.