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+---- Thread: Europe, Referendum & Brexit (formerly Europe..IN or OUT??) (/showthread.php?tid=66189)
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RE: Europe..IN or OUT?? - wackawoo - 26-06-2016 13:48
(26-06-2016 13:45 )Censorship :-( Wrote: That was two year ago, when, as has been pointed out already in this thread, the No campaign said that the only way to guarantee Scotland's place in the EU was to reject independence - Patently, things have changed!
FTR, and FWIW, the Yes campaign said that the only threat to Scotland's place in the EU was remaining a member of the UK.
Yes, I have read all that, thats the loop hole.
RE: Europe..IN or OUT?? - Censorship :-( - 26-06-2016 13:50
^ In what way is it a 'loophole'?
RE: Europe..IN or OUT?? - misterG - 26-06-2016 13:52
(26-06-2016 13:12 )Censorship :-( Wrote: It would, however, be very interesting to see the reaction of those who have said 'tough shit, Scotland, it was a UK vote, deal with it', if the 'shoe was to be on the other foot', so to speak.
Well that is the basic tenet of a Democracy and although counts were done regionally and presented that way by the media, this was a UK wide referendum and the only thing that matters is the total numbers for and against.
But I think you've highlighted one of the problems that the Stay campaign have never quite understood - the boot has been on the other foot for thirty odd years - not because of Scotland, but because no political party wanted to consider majority public feeling with regard to EU membership or do anything to change our relationship within the EU to make it acceptable to more people.
The same anger the Stay voters have expressed over the last few days has been bottled up by more people who wanted Out for a very long time.
Our political leaders seem to have followed the tactic of diminishing returns and thought that by now enough people would have got used to it or accepted it or died and been replaced by 'young europeans' - they were almost right...
None of the political parties wanted this result or were prepared for the outcome and that includes Cameron, who was arrogant enough to call the referendum without thinking he may not get the result he wanted and is now walking away from it - but perversely also seems to include the Leave campaign.
What a FARCE
The UK is strong enough to be successful in this world without hanging on to Germany's shirt tails and counting ourselves the '28th state', propping up countries that don't contribute or follow the rules enforced on us. Having sovereignty should make us Stronger and more Successful than if we're in the EU - just like the pound is stronger than the euro.
But we need strong leadership and we need unity - the very things that our leaders cowardice and devisive campaigns have destroyed.
RE: Europe..IN or OUT?? - wackawoo - 26-06-2016 14:12
(26-06-2016 13:50 )Censorship :-( Wrote: ^ In what way is it a 'loophole'?
Granted it's a big loophole, more of a hula hoop, but it is something that can be played on to force another referendum, hence calling it a loop hole.
If this did happen and the people were took up in the out hysteria that took over Britian and devolution actually happened, the United Kingdom would no longer exist which stood since James the first/6 or so.
When your Scots voter is about to make their mark that is what they have to consider, which I actually think is bigger decision than coming out of the EU. They either remain part of the united kingdom with sterling or be a a memeber state of the EU with the Euro.
It wasn't like it was an overwhelming stay in either Scotland or NI, there was a lot of out votes too (wales going the way of England), the vote for devolution when push comes to shove might be a lot closer.
I assume that's why the Scot PM is scurrying the Brussels to make sure she has a good deal on the table before she commits to a referendum.
Wouldn't it be ironic, if this was better for both England and Scotland in the long run, most of the UK's wealth comes from England so the Scots would have to rely very heavily on the EU, they will probably end up being a net reciever than a net contributer, like Poland.
RE: Europe..IN or OUT?? - lancealot790 - 26-06-2016 14:20
The real problem with the eu is that it has shown itself to be completely inflexible and utterly incapable of reform, it ignores the concerns of its own member states and carries on with its masterplan regardless of the consequences. Contrary to popular belief the eu is not one big happy family with everyone singing from the same hymn sheet, it only took migrant crisis for the member states to abandon one its most cherished ideals, ' the free movement of people ', the Schengen agreement was torn up and razor wire erected. The eu,s answer to the crisis was to introduce a quota system with each country accepting a specific amount of migrants to ease the burden on the border states and what happened? most of them simply refused to comply claiming their countries were already full. That alone proves eu member states will always put self preservation before anything else.
RE: Europe..IN or OUT?? - lovebabes56 - 26-06-2016 14:26
I think most EU members said they were already full thus shoving the migrants towards us!! The EU simply washed their hands of the migrant crisis leaving it to us - Britain - to clear up the mess for them, Think that also proves that they think the migrant crisis is a British problem not an EU one.
RE: Europe..IN or OUT?? - brummie - 26-06-2016 14:28
(26-06-2016 12:07 )wackawoo Wrote: THE UK IS EXACTLY AS IT WAS TUESDAY, IN THE EU AND EVERYTHING.
Literally people are acting as if it's the end of the world as we know it, at worse the rest of the EU could make it difficult economically, but I'm pretty sure that negatiations and deals could be struck.
Seriously this as gone past concern to being to daft to laugh at.
Well that's alright then, for a moment there I thought the pound and the markets really had crashed making the pension fund I slogged 40 odd years to build had been decimated over night. Now I know I must have dreamed it all, let me just check. oh hang on......
RE: Europe..IN or OUT?? - Censorship :-( - 26-06-2016 14:28
(26-06-2016 14:12 )wackawoo Wrote:(26-06-2016 13:50 )Censorship :-( Wrote: ^ In what way is it a 'loophole'?
Granted it's a big loophole, more of a hula hoop, but it is something that can be played on to force another referendum, hence calling it a loop hole.
If this did happen and the people were took up in the out hysteria that took over Britian and devolution actually happened, the United Kingdom would no longer exist which stood since James the first/6 or so.
When your Scots voter is about to make their mark that is what they have to consider, which I actually think is bigger decision than coming out of the EU. They either remain part of the united kingdom with sterling or be a a memeber state of the EU with the Euro.
It wasn't like it was an overwhelming stay in either Scotland or NI, there was a lot of out votes too (wales going the way of England), the vote for devolution when push comes to shove might be a lot closer.
I assume that's why the Scot PM is scurrying the Brussels to make sure she has a good deal on the table before she commits to a referendum.
Wouldn't it be ironic, if this was better for both England and Scotland in the long run, most of the UK's wealth comes from England so the Scots would have to rely very heavily on the EU, they will probably end up being a net reciever than a net contributer, like Poland.
(bangs head against wall!
) I can see why some people have given up trying to have a serious discussion with you, given that you like twist what has been said, or simply ignore it altogether...
But, I'll say one final thing, if there was not, as you claim, an overwhelming vote in Scotland to stay in the EU, at 62-38, what would you call the 52-48 that is going to take the UK out of the EU?
RE: Europe..IN or OUT?? - Censorship :-( - 26-06-2016 14:34
So, the Labour shadow cabinet, are we at the stage, yet, where we can say 'and then there were none'?!
RE: Europe..IN or OUT?? - Charlemagne - 26-06-2016 14:35
U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry is coming to London & Brussels tomorrow.
It looks like we are going to get divorce mediation for the sake of the global markets.