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RE: ChilCot Enquiry - HannahsPet - 06-07-2016 15:01
Which is saying something as Bill Dodged the Draft for Vietnam
RE: ChilCot Enquiry - setter1000 - 06-07-2016 15:04
The fact that he he has done business worth millions of pounds with the Americans after his tenure is of course just coincidence. I so wanted him to get locked up.
RE: ChilCot Enquiry - Censorship :-( - 06-07-2016 15:14
(06-07-2016 14:45 )HannahsPet Wrote: SNIP
the problem is that not only screwed up iraq but also had the bearing on Syria when Assad did have chemical weapons and used them we didnt intervene which led ISIS being created
Er, no.
Put simply, what lead to ISIS has been successive American interventions (directly or by proxy) in the Middle East (under any number of pretences, with various ulterior motives), deposing dictators, leaving behind civil car, Failed States and power vacuums, which are then filled by extremist regimes and terrorists.
And it's still going on in Syria today, where America's goal has always been regime change (Assad must go!), arming so-called moderates, destabilising the State, leading to the rise of ISIS, and the humanitarian and refugee crisis engulfing Europe.
RE: ChilCot Enquiry - HannahsPet - 06-07-2016 15:35
(06-07-2016 15:14 )Censorship :-( Wrote:(06-07-2016 14:45 )HannahsPet Wrote: SNIP
the problem is that not only screwed up iraq but also had the bearing on Syria when Assad did have chemical weapons and used them we didnt intervene which led ISIS being created
Er, no.
Put simply, what lead to ISIS has been successive American interventions (directly or by proxy) in the Middle East (under any number of pretences), deposing dictators, leaving behind civil war, failed States and power vacuums, which are then filled by extremist regimes and terrorists.
And it's still going on in Syria today, where America's goal has always been regime change (Assad must go!), arming so-called moderates, destabilising the State, leading to the rise of ISIS, and the humanitarian and refugee crisis engulfing Europe.
Isis is only about 2 years old and only became as powerful as they did because of taking over parts of syriia . a lot of the forign fighters only started going over to syria after we didnt go in 4-5 years ago. the argument for them was your goverments wont help so we need good fellow muslims to come help us fight assad
mind you could have still gone pearshaped even if we had
weve been fucking up Iraq and Syria for over 100 years since lawerence of arabia times
was watching CNN last night was talking about this new documentry about this British women and her role in creating iraq and syria she was a counter part of lawrence of arabia in fact she gave him all her maps and notes about the tribes to use in the arab uprising and then she was sidelined bascially problem she saw it was always western style goverments and then the tribes were left to do there own things that always led to trouble
we didnt learn after wwI we didnt learn in the 30's and we still not learning in the 21st century
http://edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2016/07/05/intv-amanpour-letters-from-baghdad-gertrude-bell.cnn
RE: ChilCot Enquiry - munch1917 - 06-07-2016 15:47
I forget the details, but I read something at the weekend that was quite illuminating.
It was written by a woman whose hubby was on Blair's team, and he would use a secure telephone line to be part of Blair's calls. This particular call, with Bush, he was just listening in whilst at home, and she happened to over-hear. This was the call where Blair was supposedly attempting to reign Bush in and make him wait for the second UN resolution before acting. The draft of the conversation is truly cringe-worthy, it makes Blair out to be a right wimp, who just didn't have the balls to stand up to Bush and say 'hang on a moment here before we do something stupid'. He even mentioned this potentially being his 'epitaph'. which it may well now be.
It was interesting because I have always had the impression that Blair was a very driven and 'in control' kind of guy, so I always felt he went into this war with his eyes wide open, knowing what he was doing but prepared to do it anyhow. This exchange gives a somewhat different impression however, of a man basically being bullied into submission. That certainly doesn't excuse him in any way shape or form, he was the prime minister of this country, and he has to answer for the errors and lies made. If anything, for me, it makes it even worse, to be the elected PM and allow yourself to be bullied in to something like this, fully aware of the potential risks in taking this action, aware of the possible consequences in the region afterwards. Bear in mind this was peoples lives at stake here, both the service men and women going into the conflict, and the local people. And when the guy doing the bullying is the half-wit Bush, that's even worse, the guy could barely string a legible sentence together, Blair should have been dictating to HIM, not the other way round!
Like I say, I forget the details and names etc, maybe someone else can provide a link, but the woman went on to write a play about this whole exchange, and Chilcot went along to see it, and I think he had a 'chat' with her as well during the course of the inquiry.
RE: ChilCot Enquiry - HannahsPet - 06-07-2016 15:52
^^^ https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/04/phone-call-bush-blair-failed-iraq
RE: ChilCot Enquiry - munch1917 - 06-07-2016 16:01
^^ My hero
RE: ChilCot Enquiry - HannahsPet - 06-07-2016 16:03
wasnt that difficult googled bush blair play
RE: ChilCot Enquiry - Censorship :-( - 06-07-2016 16:05
(06-07-2016 15:35 )HannahsPet Wrote:(06-07-2016 15:14 )Censorship :-( Wrote:(06-07-2016 14:45 )HannahsPet Wrote: SNIP
the problem is that not only screwed up iraq but also had the bearing on Syria when Assad did have chemical weapons and used them we didnt intervene which led ISIS being created
Er, no.
Put simply, what lead to ISIS has been successive American interventions (directly or by proxy) in the Middle East (under any number of pretences), deposing dictators, leaving behind civil war, failed States and power vacuums, which are then filled by extremist regimes and terrorists.
And it's still going on in Syria today, where America's goal has always been regime change (Assad must go!), arming so-called moderates, destabilising the State, leading to the rise of ISIS, and the humanitarian and refugee crisis engulfing Europe.
Isis is only about 2 years old and only became as powerful as they did because of taking over parts of syriia . a lot of the forign fighters only started going over to syria after we didnt go in 4-5 years ago. the argument for them was your goverments wont help so we need good fellow muslims to come help us fight assad
mind you could have still gone pearshaped even if we had
weve been fucking up Iraq and Syria for over 100 years since lawerence of arabia times
was watching CNN last night was talking about this new documentry about this British women and her role in creating iraq and syria she was a counter part of lawrence of arabia in fact she gave him all her maps and notes about the tribes to use in the arab uprising and then she was sidelined bascially problem she saw it was always western style goverments and then the tribes were left to do there own things that always led to trouble
we didnt learn after wwI we didnt learn in the 30's and we still not learning in the 21st century
http://edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2016/07/05/intv-amanpour-letters-from-baghdad-gertrude-bell.cnn
America used the situation for its own ends, to overthrow Assad (ostensibly because he is a dictator, and they wanted to spread 'democracy' (i.e. the usual guff), but in reality (and simplifying again), it is because he is allied with Russia & Iran, was not a puppet of America, and because America's allies wanted rid of him, for their own ends); had their attempt been more 'successful', ISIS would likely be in complete control of Syria by now.
As you say, however, this is just the latest in a depressingly long line of interventions; a classic case of those (often deliberately) forgetting the past, being doomed to repeat it.
RE: ChilCot Enquiry - Censorship :-( - 06-07-2016 16:11
The so-called 'Special Relationship' between the US and the UK - America says "jump", the UK says "how high"?!
