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RE: General Election 2019 - hornball - 13-12-2019 14:16
(13-12-2019 13:06 )The Silent Majority Wrote:No, In all seriousness, It is the first time that Johnson has sounded like a leader! OK scripted perhaps, but he recognised that many of the votes the Conservatives swept up last night, were on loan! When has he ever sounded so magnanimous, or even a tad humble before??(13-12-2019 07:19 )The Silent Majority Wrote: Brief summery of Gove's speech - "Everyone who didn't vote for us is a cunt"
I've had time to watch Boris's speech now as well and I thought it had a better tone. There may be hope yet.
On t'other hand, I've just noticed it's Friday 13th
The big Story here was Dodds losing to SF!! The other DUP loss was forecast, but this one?? Would be interested to dig deeper into the numbers to see exactly what went on there! That is the one annoying - yet predictable - element to all the coverage of this election Namely that we had analysis after analysis of ENG SCOT and WAL but the shifts in NI, were seen as a side show once more!!
I happened to glance at a headline in the newspaper today, which carried a quote - apparently from the DUP re the importance/urgency of kick starting the assembly! If it is seen as an imperative now - why the hell wasn't it all along?? Self serving bullshit, masquerading as principle! Had the DUP held their position of power/influence at Westminster, would they be so keen to revive Stormont?? I know SF moved to bring it down initially over the heating scheme (excuse) debacle!
Not many on this thread have much time for the DUP it would seem!
Hopefully that doesn't stretch to a view people have of all of us!!
RE: General Election 2019 - Stemmw - 13-12-2019 14:29
RTE last night and this morning had lots of coverage about the vote in NI, politicians from all stripes in the North on discussing what was happening. I think that says it all Hornball, the rest of the so called "Union" couldn't give a fuck about NI. Here in the Republic, whatever your views on cross border relations etc, we at least have a conversation about NI. It was the very same in the build up to the referendum, no one in the rest of the UK would even consider what might happen to NI and the border and whenever we Irish, on both sides, brought up the matter it was all "move along nothing to see her", until the Tories needed DUP votes that is.
I feel sorry for the North in this regard, especially the Unionists even though I would completely disagree with them. They are genuine about being part of the UK when the rest of the UK at best, have complete apathy for NI.
RE: General Election 2019 - hornball - 13-12-2019 14:47
(13-12-2019 14:29 )Stemmw Wrote: ...Yes we are, and yes you are quite right about the views held by large areas of the rest of the UK towards our place within the Union!
I feel sorry for the North in this regard, especially the Unionists even though I would completely disagree with them. They are genuine about being part of the UK when the rest of the UK at best, have complete apathy for NI.
It is telling - is it not -that much talk today, is about how Johnson can go about addressing the concerns of Scots, with little talk of the 'uncertainty' among unionist/pro british (notice the small 'u') people here in NI. Only one former Tory grandee made reference to it!
RE: General Election 2019 - lovebabes56 - 13-12-2019 14:55
I would think if Boris was to ever need the support of the SNP, SF, or DUP in the future, I hope they politely tell him "to fuck off"!!
Boris probably hasn't probably even realised the element of luck that Friday the 13th has brought him!!
RE: General Election 2019 - Charlemagne - 13-12-2019 14:59
The Queen didn't want Boris at the Palace on Friday the 13th... he reminds her of Freddie.
RE: General Election 2019 - hornball - 13-12-2019 15:02
(13-12-2019 14:58 )babelover48 Wrote: I would think if Boris was to ever need the support of the SNP, SF, or DUP in the future, I hope they politely tell him "to fuck off"!!They would need to turn up first!!
RE: General Election 2019 - hornball - 13-12-2019 16:00
I believe we should spare a thought - genuinely - for those that felt they could no longer support/defend the party they were a member of for a long period of time - so left to become - either an independent - or a member of the short - lived change UK, and who have now lost their seats!
It is the easiest thing in the world to 'suck it up' by remaining a member of a political party - despite having fundamental differences with that party, and it's policies or direction of travel - rather than stand on principle, and seek to maintain your position as MP by leaving the comfort of a secure position, and standing as an independent or with another party!
It is sad to see those that did this, cast aside in this way - particularly when they are of the calibre of Anna Soubrey Dominic Grieve, Luciana Berger (who was defending her religion - as an atheist, I respect that) and Chuka Umunna among others!
They were all principled representatives of their constituents, and were respectful of their responsibilities as MPs in the palace of Westminster
in the manner in which they conducted themselves - unlike some ie ERG and others on the anti - brexit side also!
RE: General Election 2019 - Stemmw - 13-12-2019 16:02
(13-12-2019 14:47 )hornball Wrote:(13-12-2019 14:29 )Stemmw Wrote: ...Yes we are, and yes you are quite right about the views held by large areas of the rest of the UK towards our place within the Union!
I feel sorry for the North in this regard, especially the Unionists even though I would completely disagree with them. They are genuine about being part of the UK when the rest of the UK at best, have complete apathy for NI.
It is telling - is it not -that much talk today, is about how Johnson can go about addressing the concerns of Scots, with little talk of the 'uncertainty' among unionist/pro british (notice the small 'u') people here in NI. Only one former Tory grandee made reference to it!
Not at all surprising, the Tories only seem to want to hang onto Northern Ireland as a matter of pride, it would look bad for the "union" to lose a country, and that being the only reason to keep NI means no real issues get attention or get anywhere near to being resolved.
Keeping the "union" together is basically a PR exercise, making NI irrelevant to the conversation unfortunately.
RE: General Election 2019 - hairbald - 13-12-2019 16:53
(13-12-2019 13:32 )babefan2012 Wrote: I guess I'm just more looking from the point that at least we have a direct path, no more of the 2nd referendum peoples vote shout stalling it. Personally I think he can do it now there's a clear direction moving forward. The other stuff I guess is a case of wait and see, ultimately no one knows what the next 5 years has to offer.
Either way whatever happens with Brexit and other issues whatever Boris and the Conservative's do it's a lose lose, the very parties that ballsed up colossally a big chance to get the Tories out will instead focus on Tory failures instead of their own which is largely why we find ourselves here.
I don't disagree that the withdrawal agreement will now move quickly to completion by end of Jan 20 as it should; for better or worse the country has endorsed his approach to Brexit. But that leaves 11 months to sort all the trade deals before the next cliff edge in Dec 20 when we the transition agreement ends. Boris has said no extension and, I suspect the EU won't give him one.
The trade deals and all the "proper" Brexit processes are the hard bit. Aside from some semantics on an Irish boarder, trade will continue to flow to Europe and through the European deals to the rest of the world. But we have to replace all those deals prior to 2021 or we are back to WTO terms; every country knows we have to replace those deals so we are in a tight spot with zero leverage.
Europe now knows where it stands. It harbourered hope that we may change our minds; it now knows that won't happen. So the drawbridges will be pulled up and the negotiations will get harder. China, India, Japan and the US will all do exactly the same. This will get ugly
RE: General Election 2019 - babefan2012 - 13-12-2019 17:19
As I say, ultimately no one knows what will happen. For me I think part of the reason we're here was the stalling around blocking thats occurred over the last 3 and half years, all that time and we have essentially wasted them. We're now at a last chance saloon essentially because of that, we invoked article 50 in March 2017 and then March 2019 came and we were still where we were 2 and half years earlier but with May's deal which got voted down so we didn't leave, then October hit still not left even after another "new" deal being agreed. If the vote had been respected and all sides agreed to enact the result and work together to get it done we could have been in a far better position by now.