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RE: Tour de France - Ree's No.1 fan - 09-07-2011 09:39
(09-07-2011 07:03 )Charlemagne Wrote: Brilliant team performance by HTC in bringing home Mark Cavendish for the win in yesterdays stage..
I've never understood how they arrive at a winner in cycling...
You can win most of the stages and still fail to get into the top fifty.
It was a top performance by HTC and shows how good Cavendish is as a sprinter.
I'll try and strike a balance between being a Tour bore and being too simplistic about the competitions...
The Tour is a 21 stage race across very different types of terrain and there are various types of riders. The most important race is the General Classification (GC) for the yellow jersey based on the total time taken for the whole race. Last year Contador beat Schleck by 39 seconds over 21 days and about 92 hours of racing. GC riders are good all-rounders who are strong in the mountains when a lot of time can be lost on any one stage.
Every stage is a race and Cavendish is phenomenal at winning stages that are flat. He's one of the most prolific stage winners in the history of the Tour already but he struggles in the mountains so he'll never win a grand Tour. Sprinters have a points competition based on fininshing in the first 15 (and an intermediate sprint within the stage) that is represented by the green jersey; Cavendish is in with a good chance of winning this prize in the Tour.
The other major jersey is the polka dot jersey for climbers. This is based on points for position with greater rewards for larger climbs (categorised 4 for small to out of category for the giants of the Alps and the Pyrenees). The bridge at St Nazaire was a fourth category climb in this year's Tour and worth 1 point whereas the Galibier and Alpe-D'Huez are out of category climbs worth 20 points for the first man over the top.
I hope this helps!
RE: Tour de France - danifan - 09-07-2011 11:59
Will Contador do it again? or can Cadel Evans go a step or 2 higher up the podium?
RE: Tour de France - Charlemagne - 09-07-2011 12:19
(09-07-2011 09:39 )Rees No.1 fan Wrote:(09-07-2011 07:03 )Charlemagne Wrote: I've never understood how they arrive at a winner in cycling...
You can win most of the stages and still fail to get into the top fifty.
It was a top performance by HTC and shows how good Cavendish is as a sprinter.
I'll try and strike a balance between being a Tour bore and being too simplistic about the competitions...
The Tour is a 21 stage race across very different types of terrain and there are various types of riders. The most important race is the General Classification (GC) for the yellow jersey based on the total time taken for the whole race. Last year Contador beat Schleck by 39 seconds over 21 days and about 92 hours of racing. GC riders are good all-rounders who are strong in the mountains when a lot of time can be lost on any one stage.
Every stage is a race and Cavendish is phenomenal at winning stages that are flat. He's one of the most prolific stage winners in the history of the Tour already but he struggles in the mountains so he'll never win a grand Tour. Sprinters have a points competition based on fininshing in the first 15 (and an intermediate sprint within the stage) that is represented by the green jersey; Cavendish is in with a good chance of winning this prize in the Tour.
The other major jersey is the polka dot jersey for climbers. This is based on points for position with greater rewards for larger climbs (categorised 4 for small to out of category for the giants of the Alps and the Pyrenees). The bridge at St Nazaire was a fourth category climb in this year's Tour and worth 1 point whereas the Galibier and Alpe-D'Huez are out of category climbs worth 20 points for the first man over the top.
I hope this helps!
I know what you are saying, but most other sports have a winner who wins the most races... Not a guy who performs better than the rest on a couple of hill climbs. It should be on a points system.. for example winner get 20 points, 2nd gets 15 points etc.
It would make it more exciting, and end the processions at the end of most Tours.
RE: Tour de France - 199lives - 09-07-2011 12:40
But the tour is a race and fastest time to complete a race is always the winner, it's not a championship. It would be silly if Cavendish could win a stage by tenths of seconds but lose hours in the mountains and still win the race.
RE: Tour de France - Charlemagne - 09-07-2011 14:41
But he's not.. Cavendish is beating the guy in a yellow jersey by about 30 seconds.
He wins the race... and the guy in the yellow jersey comes in at the back of the pack and still gets the same time...
It's the only sport I know that you can win the race by finishing last.
RE: Tour de France - 199lives - 09-07-2011 15:12
No, what your saying only applies to the early stages of the race before any of the big mountain stages which is where all the large time gaps open up. take last years tour as an example cavendish won 6 stages all in a large group sprint finish. but he was nearly 4 hours behind contador by the time they reached the end of the race. how whould it be fair for him to be tour de france champion?
RE: Tour de France - Boomerangutangangbang - 09-07-2011 16:07
Back in the day when Ch4 covered the tour I was an avid follower.I've always viewed the riders as some of the fittest & bravest in any sport.But the drug issue is a mess if you can't have any confidence who is or isn't cheating.
RE: Tour de France - Captain Vimes - 10-07-2011 22:11
(09-07-2011 14:41 )Charlemagne Wrote: But he's not.. Cavendish is beating the guy in a yellow jersey by about 30 seconds.
He wins the race... and the guy in the yellow jersey comes in at the back of the pack and still gets the same time...
It's the only sport I know that you can win the race by finishing last.
It a Time Trial, Charlemagne.
You know I love you so you know I'm not having a got at you.
Cavendish has his minders when it starts to get a bit hilly like over the last couple of days. Bernie Eisel eases him through the mountains whilst he's gasping for air. This takes nothing away from his ability as the best sprinter and none of his fellow competitors would demean him for this.
He is not a climber, vast chunks of time are lost in the high mountains even between those riders who are considered climbers. There are great climbers who can stay with the guys going for the overall win who are useless when it comes to the individual time trial.
It is an exercise in looking for the best overall cyclist whilst letting those with specialist skills have their day.
Sorry if this sounds patronising.
Today's piece of Art. Thomas Voeckler's tongue.
RE: Tour de France - Ree's No.1 fan - 11-07-2011 10:03
A fascinating weekend with Thor Hushovd hanging on to the yellow jersey on the clim up to Super-Besse Sancy on Saturday and break away riders winning both stages. Congratulations to Thomas Voekler for getting into a break away to Saint-Flour and taking the yellow jersey; he'll be desperate to hold on to it until Bastille Day and may well be able to keep hold of it for a while in the mountains.
A special mention on a day of crashes for Johnny Hoogerland and Juan Antonio Flecha who were both in the five man break away when they were taken out by a French TV car. Flecha had a heavy fall and plenty of road rash whereas poor Hoogerland - who is one of the most attacking riders in the peloton and well worth following - was flipped off the road into a barbed wire fence. Fortunately both were able to limp to the finish but the guy driving the car isn't going to be on the Tour after that piece of driving. Worth doing a search on you tube for the incident and you can get the sense of outrage from the Dutch commentary. David Harmon and Sean Kelly on Eurosport were absolutely scathing about the incident.
A final mention for Alexandre Vinokourov who broke his femur on a damp descent and had to be carried out of a tree lined ditch back up to the road by his Astana team mates. A flawed figure who is all too typical of contemporary cycling but his courage should never be doubted. He was desparate to wear the yellow jersey for a stage and nearly secured that on Saturday when he attacked on the stage to Super-Besse; by Sunday evening he was nursing a broken bone and the end of his Tour career. A well deserved rest day before the inexorable move towards the huge mountains of the Pyrenees where we'll really start to see who is the best cyclist.
RE: Tour de France - terence - 11-07-2011 10:10