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+---- Thread: Europe, Referendum & Brexit (formerly Europe..IN or OUT??) (/showthread.php?tid=66189)
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RE: Europe, Referendum & Brexit (formerly Europe..IN or OUT??) - southsidestu - 21-03-2019 13:05
It will be interesting to see if MV3 fails the only way to stop no deal will be to revoke Article 50, since there is a majority in Parliament against No Deal will there therefore be a majority in Parliament to revoke? Or will they just let no deal happen? It looks like we are heading for a No Deal vs Revoke shootout at the Eleventh hour, it would make a good political thriller movie but sadly it is real life.
She kind of went full Trump with her speech last night, using the non-binding advisory and fake will of the people referendum to attack and undermine the sovereignty of Parliament (the real will of the people). I think the fortunate thing is that she is so hapless that no one will take her seriously enough but it is a very bad sign when the leader of the executive branch seeks to attack the legislative branch.
Referendums are curious things, if done right as in the case of Ireland then they can transform things for the better but if the are done badly as this one was the can be detrimental to democracy. There is this idea that democracy is just putting a cross on a piece of paper every now and again but it is so much more than that. Democracy is transparency and accountability, democracy is making an INFORMED decision, democracy is the rule of law, like the law that twice struck down the Government in the Article 50 case and democracy is about a constitution that has a set of guidelines and principles as set out in Erskine May. The Prime Minister called The Speaker's use of a rule that has been in place since 1604 to stop her WA being put for a third vote as a constitutional crisis, in reality it was the constitution doing exactly what it is designed to do, reign in the power of The Executive. Our democracy is so much more than the zeitgeist, it is centuries of rules and legislation put in place by experts and informed individuals.
It's no surprise then when you look at people who have used referendums in the past: Napoleon, Hitler, Mussolini in order to advance their agenda it is not exactly a who's who of freedom fighting leaders. Even today President Recep Tayyipp Erdogan uses Referendums to strip away the democratic rights of Turkey's institutions and citizens consolidating power at his disposal.
I guess this is why 2/3 of the most influential British Prime Minister's of the modern era, Attlee and Thatcher both said the same things with regards to referendums: "Referendums are the devices of Dictators and demagogues"
RE: Europe, Referendum & Brexit (formerly Europe..IN or OUT??) - Glenn Miller - 21-03-2019 13:20
(21-03-2019 12:31 )Charlemagne Wrote: The sites now down for maintenance.
The site isn't down for maintenance. It just keeps crashing that's all and every time it crashes that maintenance message is shown.
If you see that maintenance message you'll find that the site usually comes back again after being offline for only a few minutes.
RE: Europe, Referendum & Brexit (formerly Europe..IN or OUT??) - HannahsPet - 21-03-2019 14:01
Sorry there was no threat of violence in Mays Address last night was just
The Country voted one way MP's think they know better and they will have to face there electorates come the general Election
and this is coming from a remainer im sick of the MP's
If we No deal then all of them should resign on principle and there should be a General Election
RE: Europe, Referendum & Brexit (formerly Europe..IN or OUT??) - southsidestu - 21-03-2019 20:03
Nobody said anything about threats of violence, you can attack and undermine without threatening violence.
MPs do know better than the public that is the entire point of their existence
RE: Europe, Referendum & Brexit (formerly Europe..IN or OUT??) - HannahsPet - 21-03-2019 22:09
(21-03-2019 20:03 )southsidestu Wrote: Nobody said anything about threats of violence, you can attack and undermine without threatening violence.
MPs do know better than the public that is the entire point of their existence
you really believe that
RE: Europe, Referendum & Brexit (formerly Europe..IN or OUT??) - lovebabes56 - 22-03-2019 07:00
A new two tier extension was agreed late last night. Firstly NEW LEAVING DATE WILL BE 22 May, if Parliament ratifies May's deal by end of next week. IF rejected again, then an a new harder deadline on 12 April which will include asking for a longer delay and fighting European elections or fal lout of the bloc with no deal.
Can't see Bercow allowing that to happen -"Not enough changes to allow vote" he'll say
Best get the riot police ready Mrs May....
RE: Europe, Referendum & Brexit (formerly Europe..IN or OUT??) - SecretAgent - 22-03-2019 07:11
(22-03-2019 07:00 )babelover48 Wrote: A new extension agreed NEW LEAVING DATE WILL BE 22 May, if Parliament ratifies May's deal by end of next week.
Can't see Bercow allowing that to happen -"Not enough changes" to allow vote" he'll say
Best get the riot police ready Mrs May....
That’s not even half of what was agreed. Perhaps you’d like to explain why the EU have not capitulated and agreed to change the negotiated deal as that’s what you Brexiteers have been saying would happen.
RE: Europe, Referendum & Brexit (formerly Europe..IN or OUT??) - lovebabes56 - 22-03-2019 07:34
IF thr MP's did their bloody job properly and involved the public at every stage, we wouldn't have had this mess IMO
RE: Europe, Referendum & Brexit (formerly Europe..IN or OUT??) - Charlemagne - 22-03-2019 08:00
Near 2.5 million on the petition now.
RE: Europe, Referendum & Brexit (formerly Europe..IN or OUT??) - Rake - 22-03-2019 08:12
Still 17.4 million in the only vote that counts.
#nodealnoproblem