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RE: UFC - gazfc - 22-11-2010 17:35
I have got one gripe from sat though, about BJ Penn been regarded as one of the best pound for pound fighters. How can he be called that with a record of 16-7? Or am I thinking of this from a boxing point if view? It's just that it made no sense to me.
RE: UFC - groundnpound - 22-11-2010 20:11
For me a Boxer with a record of 16 wins 7 Losses is totally different to a MMArtist with the same record.It's easier to lose a fight in the UFC i'd say, as the fights are mostly Three 5 minute rounds..Title fights being Five Rounds of 5 Minutes.There are also a mindfield of different methods of victory in MMA.In boxing your Either KO'D or Beaten on points.
So in my view the way you look at records in both sports are totally different?
What you guys think?
BJ is Knowhere near being the pound for pound best Gaz.Earlier in his career maybe...He desperately needed his victory on sat night no doubt about it,I think he's gonna fight John Fitch next at UFC 127.He's been an outstanding fighter over the past 10 years in the UFC and for me deserves his legendary status.
RE: UFC - groundnpound - 22-11-2010 20:18
Hardy wants Penn or Hughes or maybe Koscheck....
RE: UFC - mitchell - 22-11-2010 23:56
(22-11-2010 17:35 )gazfc Wrote: I have got one gripe from sat though, about BJ Penn been regarded as one of the best pound for pound fighters. How can he be called that with a record of 16-7? Or am I thinking of this from a boxing point if view? It's just that it made no sense to me.
BJ Penn is regarded as one of the top maybe 3-5 pound for pound fighters because of his career credentials & record.
24 matches 16 wins 7 losses
Knockout W7 L2
Submission W6 L0
Decision W3 L5
Draws 1
UFC Lightweight Championship (1 Time)
UFC Welterweight Championship (1 Time)
Submission of the Night (2 Times)
Knockout of the Night (1 Time)
Second person to win a belt in two weight classes.
As well as his BBJ career.
2000 – Black Belt Pena: 1st Place
1999 – Brown Belt Leve: 3rd Place
1998 – Blue Belt Pena: 2nd Place
CBJJ Brazilian Team Championships
2000 – Marrom Preta Leve: Nova União, 1st Place
In 1997 Penn began training Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu under Ralph Gracie, eventually earning his purple belt from Gracie. At that point he moved to Nova União where he was eventually awarded his black belt in 2000 by Andre Pederneiras. A few weeks later he became the first non-Brazilian to win the black-belt division of the World Jiu-Jitsu Championship held in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. While Penn's most well-known and prestigious achievement was placing first in the black belt division in the 2000 world championships, he had success at the Mundials in previous years. In 1999, at the age of 20, Penn finished 3rd in the brown belt division, losing only to Fernando Terere.
While most people need a decade or more to become a black belt, Penn had, with only three years of training, not only received a black belt but defeated people who had been training their entire lives on his way to winning the World Jiu-Jitsu Championship. Penn is thought to have earned the fastest black belt ever and he has the world record for it too.
His loss record is to fighters who are mostly in the welterweight division.
Jens Pulver 2002 At the time Pulver was an established mma fighter & making the 2nd defence of his UFC lightweight title & had a record of 12-2.
Lyoto Machida 2005 Unanimous decision, this was a K1 fight with Machida weighing 220lb & BJ 191lb.
GSP 2006 Welterweight division, split decision.
Matt Hughes 2006 TKO rd3, welterweight title fight.
GSP 2009 TKO rd4, welterweight title fight.
Frankie Edgar 2010 Unanimous decision, lightweight title.
Frankie Edgar 2010 Unanimous decision, lightweight title.
He also beat Rodrigo Gracie by Unanimous decision at middleweight (mma fight, not in the UFC) & Renzo Gracie by Unanimous decision at middleweight at the 2005 K-1 World Grand Prix.
All this & on December 13th he'll turn 32... Yeah thats right he's still got 5-10 more years if he wants or needs them!!!
RE: UFC - groundnpound - 24-11-2010 16:07
Just seen that Michael Bisping will fight Jorge Rivera at UFC 127.
Rivera confirmed the fight on Facebook.
"UFC 127 vs Michael Bisping is on," he wrote.
He was due to meet Italian Alessio Sakara in Boston at UFC 118 in August but both fighters were injured. The fight was rescheduled for UFC 122 in Germany earlier this month, only to have Sakara fall prey to flu-like symptoms the day of the fight.
UFC 127 isn't confirmed yet but is expected to take place in Sydney, Australia, on Feb. 27.
Bisping fought at UFC 110, the UFC's first card in Australia, in February when he lost a decision to Wanderlei (The Axe Murderer) Silva.
Not quite sure what this match up is all about to be honest?I thought Bisping would have been in with a much higher calibre opponent than Rivera in his next bout?
Disappointed.
RE: UFC - 199lives - 24-11-2010 18:22
not good for bisping even a win doesn't get him closer to a title shot just keeps him static, chance for rivera to take a step up.
Aldo has had to postppone his ufc debut at with a neck injury, was still announced as the first ufc featherweight champion though
random fact of the day: for about a year the ufc have been using 'new' belts, they look shinier. the old one's were hand made and cost $5ooo each the new ones are just customised upgrades of the replicas you can buy for couple of hundred dollars
RE: UFC - mitchell - 24-11-2010 20:31
This just goes to show what the UFC think of Michael Bisping, pretty much as i thought after the Akiyama fight.
(17-10-2010 13:34 )mitchell Wrote: Michael Bisping v Yoshihiro Akiyama For me Mike is too one dimensional & doesn't have the range of skill needed to be a serious contender to Anderson Silva let alone be champion. The Americans only take note of him due to his talk before fights & we only take note of him as he was the first fighter from over here to make any headway at world level. The fact is he's no better than someone like Mike Pyle or Jon Fitch & those fighter make a name for themselves as a tough opponent but aren't considered champion quality???
Jorge Rivera's 38 years old & isn't a top level fighter, he's got a good record & with 12 KO's & is the type of fighter that Bisping may struggle with like Wanderlei Silva, he'll force the issue & Bisping won't like it as he prefers to be the pressure fighter, this could be a big fight in Bisping's career, if he wins well he can say, Ok you gave me a shit but tricky opponenet & i took care of him now put me in with a title contender. But if he loses then he'll be a fighter the same a Martin Kampmann, someone who will be used to test the so called rising stars.
Jorge Rivera has lost all the fights when he's faced top opposition.
Rich Franklin - Submission (Armbar) rd 3
Anderson Silva - TKO (Knees and Punches) rd 2
Martin Kampmann
- Submission (Guillotine choke) rd 1Although he is coming off a TKO win over Nate Quarry.
The Aussie look like they're gonna get a Germany style card, not great at first glance but has some good fights.
Confirmed
Jon Fitch v B.J. Penn
George Sotiropoulos v Dennis Siver
Rumoured
Carlos Condit v Chris Lytle
Michael Bisping v Jorge Rivera
Spencer Fisher v Ross Pearson
Rumoured for UFC 126 Silva v Belfort, Rich Franklin v Forrest Griffin
RE: UFC - groundnpound - 25-11-2010 13:59
Thought about the Bisping stuff last night and you're probably spot on Mitchell.The UFC are saying to themselves...We'll give Michael Bisping another Wanderlei Silva type challenge and if he comes through this time we'll step him up.
So lets hope he takes care of this Rivera in some sort of style.Who on earth has he fought in his career?Apart from Anderson Silva 5 years ago?He knocked out Alex Reid in 40 secs though...Now we've got Michael worried!
Jeez...He's nowhere near a Wanderlei..Lets get that right.Think the possible card for 127 looks quite good and if we get Silva vs. Belfort and Franklin vs. Griffin at 126 then we're in for 2 good shows i think.
Didn't know that about the belts 199.I've noticed the extra shine though!Just thought they had given them a polish or something?Do you know why they would change the belts like that?It must be the Global Recession
RE: UFC - groundnpound - 26-11-2010 14:37
Found this on UFC.com.With UFC124 coming up i thought it would interest some of u lads.
UFC welterweight champion Georges St-Pierre has always been one of mixed martial arts’ greatest talents. But what were the seven defining moments of the Canadian star’s career as he approaches his December 11th title defense against Josh Koscheck? Read on to find out on this updated list.
Matt Hughes I – October 22, 2004 – UFC 50
Result – Hughes Wsub1
The fresh-faced kid from Montreal made quite a name for himself in his first UFC fights, decisioning fellow young gun Karo Parisyan at UFC 46 and then stopping Jay Hieron at UFC 48. But just four months after the Hieron fight, St-Pierre, just 7-0, found himself in the Octagon with his fighting hero, Matt Hughes. As he told me before his second bout with Hughes, “The first time I fought him, I was fighting my idol,” he admitted. “It was the first time I had done something like that, he was in front of me, and for me in my mind, it was impossible to do anything to him because he was too good.” GSP held his own for much of the first round though, until Hughes was able to lock in an armbar with seconds left in the opening frame. St-Pierre immediately tapped, unaware that if he held on for one more second, he would have gotten a reprieve. It was a move that made people question his resolve, and a decision he regretted almost instantly. “The moment I saw the replay of the fight, I realized I was doing pretty well,” he said. “I totally realized that I could beat that guy.” He would have to wait two years for that opportunity.
BJ Penn – March 4, 2006 – UFC 58
Result – St-Pierre W 3 (split)
It was a purist’s dream match, and it lived up to the hype, but after the first round ended, not too many people would have bet that St-Pierre would emerge victorious. “That first round (against Penn) was the worst round of my life,” admitted St. Pierre after the bout. “Actually, if you look at my career, I had never lost a round against anybody (to that point). Even when I fought Matt Hughes, the judges thought I was ahead – I asked them if they would have given me the round. So this round (against Penn) was the only round I lost.” GSP more than lost it; he was bloodied and battered by the crisp standup of Penn, and many wondered if he would fold. He didn’t, showing the heart of a champion in roaring back and taking the next two rounds and the decision. It was the gut check moment all fighters have to go through, and St-Pierre passed with flying colors. “It just proved to everybody that I’m a lot stronger mentally than when I fought Matt Hughes,” said St. Pierre. “I’ve been able to come back after a beating and get the victory. I think that’s the difference between a champion and a guy who will always be tough, but will never be a champion. You can be as skillful as you want, but if you don’t have the mental toughness, you’re not going to go anywhere, and in our sport, sooner or later, you’ll need that to win a fight.”
Matt Hughes II – November 18, 2006 – UFC 65
Result – St-Pierre TKO 2
St-Pierre more than earned a second title shot at Hughes after five straight wins against top-notch competition, and he was a different fighter than he was two years earlier. Hughes, one of the strongest fighters ever to step into the Octagon, found that out early on when he tried to lock the challenger up and St-Pierre tossed him away with little if any effort. By round two, the result was academic, and when the Montrealer dropped Hughes with a kick to the head in round two, seconds later a new champ was crowned. It was expected to be a reign that would last for as long as St-Pierre wanted it to. But you know that old adage about the best-laid plans of mice and men…
Matt Serra – April 7, 2007 – UFC 69
Result – Serra TKO 1
To most people, Matt Serra didn’t even need to show up for his championship fight against St-Pierre at UFC 69. But there’s a reason why people actually fight the fights and don’t determine results on message boards or on talk shows, and that’s because when two highly-skilled athletes are in competition with each other, anything can happen, and in mixed martial arts, one mistake or one missed second of focus can mean defeat. St-Pierre, reportedly besieged by personal issues before the fight, found that out the hard way as Serra walked into the Octagon loose, well-prepared, and confident, and the New Yorker pulled the stunning upset, stopping St-Pierre in the first round. It was a crushing defeat for GSP.
Josh Koscheck I – August 25 – UFC 74
Result – St-Pierre W 3 (Unanimous)
This may have been the most important fight of St-Pierre’s career. After the loss to Serra, the whispers were that GSP was ultra-talented but didn’t have that extra something to be great. It shows you how soon people forget the way he came back against Penn or dominated most of the 170-pound division on the way to the title. St-Pierre kept quiet and went about his business, determined to teach all the skeptics a lesson. The lesson he taught in dominating wrestling ace Josh Koscheck at UFC 74 was that you can’t keep a good man down, that he was back, and that he wasn’t going anywhere.
Matt Serra II – April 19, 2008 – UFC 83
Result – St-Pierre TKO2
If GSP was going to crack under the pressure, this was the night to do it. Not only was he facing the man who knocked him out, but he was doing it in his hometown of Montreal, where fans packed the Bell Centre just to see their hero in action. Well, he didn’t disappoint, stopping Serra in the second round with a disciplined and dominant attack. “The pressure was there,” he said. “But I’m at my best when I perform under pressure – it keeps me sharp and aware of what can happen and what is on the line.”
BJ Penn II – January 31, 2009 – UFC 94
Result – St-Pierre TKO4
Nearly three years after their first bout, St-Pierre and Penn locked horns again in THE superfight of 2009. Only this time, it wasn’t a 15 minute back and forth war. The second time around, St-Pierre, bigger and stronger than Penn – who was coming up from 155 pounds for the bout – was in control for four rounds until the Hawaiian’s corner decided that they had seen enough and halted the fight before the final stanza. After all the bad blood and trash talk before the match, it was one of St-Pierre’s most satisfying victories and one that entrenched him in the upper reaches of the mythical pound for pound list.
GSP
![[Image: georges_stpierre_ufc94.jpg]](http://imagechunk.com/viewer.php?file=georges_stpierre_ufc94.jpg)
RE: UFC - mitchell - 26-11-2010 21:07
The new list of MMA's 10 best pound-for-pound fighters
http://sports.espn.go.com/extra/mma/columns/story?id=5851519
I've not seen or heard of Gilbert Melendez or Dominick Cruz as i've not watched WEC before & with no research can't comment. Jose Aldo i've only seen highlights of the Urijah Faber fight but i know he's a quality fighter, Frankie Edgar i've only seen the two BJ fights & as good as he was BJ was just as bad, pretty much the same with Jake Shields.
Jon Fitch 5th best pound for pound fighter in the world...Errr, not too sure about that one, he's a good fighter but has no defining qualities with 13 of his 23 wins coming by decision including last 7 by unanimous decision, personally i think Josh Koshcheck is a better fighter.
All in all this isn't the list i would've expected to see, with the exception of the top two, it would take too long to talk about as i came go on a bit so i'll leave it to one of you chaps. Here's a start BJ Penn, see my penultimate post for reasons........