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RE: US Election & Presidency - skully - 28-01-2021 12:51
(27-01-2021 22:46 )The Goatman Wrote: One of the first thing president biden has done is made trans women be able to compete in womens sports now all the women athletes are kicking off and rightfully so
That's not strictly true now is it, what he did do is bolster trans rights, which also includes allowing transgender people to serve in the military and have the dignity to use the bathroom that matches their gender identity, which is the right thing to do.
It's not true that ''all the women athletes are kicking off'', only the ignorant anti trans ones would be kicking off (as usual), the lies and misinformation spread about trans people in general is ridiculous, and the stuff that certain sites say about trans athletes is wholly inaccurate. True competitive athletes and the governing bodies are all for inclusion.
https://www.aclu.org/news/lgbt-rights/four-myths-about-trans-athletes-debunked/
Ignorance is the problem, not the allowing of trans athletes.
RE: US Election & Presidency - The Goatman - 28-01-2021 13:04
Well thats not true really because i saw a news report with a young female athlete on cnn and she was saying she doesnt think its fair that a non biological woman/a man is able to take spots from biological women and she was worried that its going to erase womem in sport which it pretty much will as whether you wamt to admit to it a post op trans woman is still biologically a man...
And that site aclu is know to have left wing bias...
But i better not post anymore as i will probably be banned because this forum is also run by the left...
RE: US Election & Presidency - skully - 28-01-2021 13:06
Well she is part of the problem then, she's ignorant as are you on this subject. Facts aren't left or right wing.
We are heading into angering Skully territory, it happened with Nicole Charming, I will not tolerate that kind of attitude on this forum, so a wise move.
Not agreeing with ignorance or stupidity doesn't make the forum left wing. lol.
RE: US Election & Presidency - Stemmw - 28-01-2021 13:40
(28-01-2021 13:04 )The Goatman Wrote: And that site aclu is know to have left wing bias...
Well yeah I mean they've defended all sorts of left wing people and organisations over the years, such as the KKK and their rights to rally/protest, Rush Limbaugh, Milo Yiannopoulos, the tea party etc all under first amendment issues, really biased
RE: US Election & Presidency - ShandyHand - 28-01-2021 13:56
There is an issue with sports though isn't there. It's meant to be an arena where fairness trumps rights. We already segregate some sports by sex (not gender note) where it is fair to do so. I can't claim my right to enter a women's football team can I? If I'd trained half my life to excel to eliteness in a chosen sport I'd be bloody miffed that someone came along and exploited a quirk of genetics to make what they'd be mediocre in under normal circumstances into a winning proposition. Why is it deemed correct to prioritise one person's hopes and dreams above any other in a way that clearly goes against a basic level playing field?
RE: US Election & Presidency - tony confederate - 28-01-2021 16:07
(27-01-2021 22:46 )The Goatman Wrote: One of the first thing president biden has done is made trans women be able to compete in womens sports
That can't be true because he doesn't have that kind of power. Sports are generally controlled by world bodies which don't take instructions from the USA. In sport it's governing bodies that make these kind of decisions.
What Biden appears to have done is make trans girls able to compete in girls sports in schools and colleges (although currently only one state - Idaho - has a law barring trans students from participating in girls teams).
RE: US Election & Presidency - Rake - 29-01-2021 06:43
My assessment of the Transsexualism and sports issue:
I am supportive of people with gender dysphoria and transsexuals being able to live in their desired gender role without fear or discrimination and, well just being able to get on with it like the rest of us. It is essentially, at it's heart, a supratentorial condition and as such we should be endeavour to be kind, understanding and tolerant and facilitative. But as with everything else in life, this should not mean the rights of one (in this case very small) group should be allowed to unfairly infringe another, however loud and effective their lobbyists are....
Trans women entering women's sport is one such arena where the majority group's rights risk being greatly infringed and is therefore a difficult matter. This is because:
- Birth sex males 23XY have a lot more muscle mass and a higher percentage of that muscle is fast twitch fibres. These anatomical and physiological differences confer a large advantage in power and strength and athletics performance over females 23XX. No about of cosmetic hormone therapy will mitigate that.
- Birth sex males 23XY have anatomically larger lungs with larger capacity, and higher peak flow rates and in turn this leads to significantly higher VO2max. This confers a large advantage in performance over females 23XX. No amount of cosmetic hormone therapy will alter that.
- Birth sex males 23XY have larger capacity ventricles, with thicker more powerful myocardium in their hearts, and larger hearts overall than females 23XX. This also leads to a significantly higher stroke volume and cardiac output. This combines with the lung advantages in 2. above to contribute to VO2max and the very clear performance advantages males have over females in athletic sports. No amount of cosmetic hormone therapy will alter that.
- Birth sex males 23XY have larger bones and skeletons which are stronger with denser calcification. This is to attach the larger and stronger musculature (see 1 above). This confers a substantial advantage in power and contact sports over females 23XX. No amount of cosmetic hormone therapy will alter that. Incidentally this disparity also a big reason why pitting Males23XY Vs Females 23XX in power based contact sports such as rugby or boxing is quite simply dangerous for 23XX females. Think of the concussion debates and litigation in rugby going on right now…and then some.
Blithely pretending it is all okay and we are all equal I am afraid just isn't going to work.
RE: US Election & Presidency - HannahsPet - 29-01-2021 09:46
it depends on the sports to be honest
some sports like combat sports and full contact sports like rugby a lot more care should be taken about the issue and at least be transparent
because transition doesnt stop the advantage of having grown up a male in areas where in the sport it would be an advantage
needs to be proper debate and not the name calling that usally happens
RE: US Election & Presidency - southsidestu - 29-01-2021 21:00
If size & physical ability were the only thing that matters in sports then that might make an argument against transgender athletes being included in cisgender teams/divisions but since that is most definitely not the case i don't see the how they could be prevented.
In boxing for example, speed & accuracy are much better attributes to have than power. I think back to how Haye (6ft 3in, 98 kg) beat Valuev (7ft, 143 kg) by being able to out maneuver him, as his size made him slow. Connor McGregor after defeating Jose Aldo in 13 seconds said "precision beats power and timing beats speed."
Rugby a highly physical sport can accommodate players of different sizes such as the 6ft 4 in, 112 kg Lawrence Dallaglio & the 5ft 8 in 81kg Jason Robinson in the same England team
In football its rarely the strongest players that make the best, granted the two Ronaldos are tanks but Messi, Maradona, Pele, Cruyff, Best, Henry, Da Silva, De Bruyne, not known for their physical stature. Even in defence which is the more physical aspect you don't have to be the strongest. Paolo Maldini, arguably the greatest defender of all time, once said that if he had to make a tackle it meant that he had made a mistake. A cisgender defender does not need to be stronger than the transgender attacker because the very best players know how to read the game, how best to position herself, move the trans attacker onto her weaker foot, show her down the outside so that even if the attacker is able to beat her for pace or strength she is facing the goal at an acute angle & shooting at the near post which will favour the keeper
Lance Armstrong had larger lung capacity, a larger heart & lower lactate levels than the average human male & many of his competitors, didn't stop him from having to cheat his way with drugs to seven titles
Sport is not made up of people of the same size, strength & physical attributes like lung capacity. It is made up of a diverse array of players who rely on a wide range of attributes: speed, skill, timing, precision, intelligence to achieve success.
Blithely pretending that that is not the case just isn't going to work
RE: US Election & Presidency - Rake - 29-01-2021 21:46
Every single example you have given are biological males, compared against biological males, proving my point perfectly.
You need to demonstrate that 23XX females can compete equally with 23XX males in sport. Do you really think women can play against men on an equal footing, and safely, in rugby, football, or athletics?
Man City Women Vs Man City Men....mmm yea not sure who'd win....might need a cricket scoreboard though.
Saracens Women Vs Saracens Men. Might need 15 ambulances and some very, very good lawyers.
4x400M USA Relay Team Men Vs USA Relay Team Women - the guys might finish their lap of honour before the women even hit the back straight!
Male Peloton Vs Female Peloton combined Tour de France: what % women will finish inside the male peloton times over a stage, let alone a whole Tour?
Boxing. Males versus females, in any weight category, would be tantamount to femicide. Utter carnage. More lawyers and ambulances required as well as undertakers.