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No to Scottish Independance - southsidestu - 30-01-2012 13:54
WARNING THIS IS BLOODY LONG SO ONLY READ IF YOU HAVE AN INTEREST IN THE SUBJECT, HAVE TIME TO KILL OR HAVE TROUBLE SLEEPING
I'm a Scot i am greatly opposed to the idea of Scottish Independance, now as the SNP would have you believe it's not because i'm not a patriot no its because i have common sense.
I mean lets break it down
1. When you look at what the SNP are offering it isnt really independance its a con. What they offer is a slightly evolved version of Devo Max, Alex Salmond has said that Scotland will keep the pound as its currency meaning that our Intrest and borrowing rates will be controlled by the bank of england. Further more in the interview with Andrew Marr on Sunday the 29th of January he said that Scotland will remain in the United Kingdom and part of the commonwealth recognising the Queen as its head of state. I think it's obvious why he wants to remian part of the United Kingdom because of the ties it brings; a member of the EU and the trade benefits that come with it, our permanent seat on the UN security council as well as our membership in NATO. So what happens to Scotland if we go "independant" and remain in the UK? All UK decessions take place in Westminster thats why we send 59 MPs there, Westminster will go on without Scotland so if we do not have our MPs there Scotland will be in the UK but with no real voice to be heard.
2. I do not feel that Scotland can cope economically on its own, our number one resource is oil and it just so happens to be finite. When i raise this point with SNP supporters they talk about how Salmond is looking to invest in renewable resources, which is fine for our own energy needs but we can't sell it, unless of course we find a country that has no water, wind or sunlight and we find a way to package wind and sunlight. The SNP talk about how their lowering of corporation tax will make Scotland an ideal hub for enterprise. That may work to an extend but lower corp tax can't compete realistically with the lower labour costs found overseas. Further more there is the deal with RBS when it went into near collapse it was bailed out by the British taxplayer (most of whom are not Scottish) if Scotland were independant there is no way such a deal could of been done as it took a sum of money greater than three times the countries GDP, RBS would of collapsed people would have lost their savings and thousands made jobless. Salmond has also previously stated that Scotland should follow the economic model of countries like Iceland, which was the worst effected by the 08 financial crisis, as well as wanting to join the eurozone. Lets be honest the majority of the big democracies have seen a change in leadership since the 08 crisis ourselves, America, Japan, Ireland, Portugal, Greece, Italy and several others have seen the leaders in charge at the time of the recession being voted out. I think if Scotland were already independant Salmond would of got the boot instead he hit behind Brown and Darling when the shit hit the fan.
3. Finally its a sense of belonging i see myself as both Scottish and British and proudly so. I have cheered on Tim Henman, Kelly Holmes as she achieved her double olympic gold, Hamilton when he won his world championship as well as Andy Murray, Sir Chris Hoy, Paul DiResta and numerous other scots who represent Britain. As a nation we fought in two World Wars, the Korean, Falklands, Gulf, eastern europe, Sierra Leone, Afghanistan and Iraq wars and the people involved in those have formed a bond for the four nations as we hounour, respect and remember them as a United Kingdom.
RE: No to Scottish Independance - sweetsugar007 - 30-01-2012 14:32
Unfortunately your First Minister and a large probably majority of your country seems to be up for it without thinking of the consequences.Yes there is North Sea oil but this is about 58% depleted.
I would love to keep the Union as its a fantastic mix of cultures but if the Scots want to go Independent and I suggest they have a little look at Ireland then it should be clean including border controls if EU membership is not confirmed. Individual membership of UN and NATO. Pro rata responsiblity for the structural deficit and yes I suppose they would be entitled to North Sea Oil.
Just my own view to a very good post.
RE: No to Scottish Independance - SeanTheDon - 30-01-2012 14:38
Scotland would be fucked
RE: No to Scottish Independance - sweetsugar007 - 30-01-2012 14:44
Is that the technical term Sean?
RE: No to Scottish Independance - SeanTheDon - 30-01-2012 14:50
Lol well just summing it up as simple as i can,i am not good at political discussion,so if we wanted to be independant we would be well and truly fucked and end up like Greece
RE: No to Scottish Independance - southsidestu - 30-01-2012 16:14
(30-01-2012 14:32 )sweetsugar007 Wrote: Unfortunately your First Minister and a large probably majority of your country seems to be up for it without thinking of the consequences.Yes there is North Sea oil but this is about 58% depleted.
I would love to keep the Union as its a fantastic mix of cultures but if the Scots want to go Independent and I suggest they have a little look at Ireland then it should be clean including border controls if EU membership is not confirmed. Individual membership of UN and NATO. Pro rata responsiblity for the structural deficit and yes I suppose they would be entitled to North Sea Oil.
Just my own view to a very good post.
As i alluded to in my first paragraph i think what the supporters for independance vote think they are voting for is different to what they are getting. Ask them if they want to remian part of the UK with the bank of england controlling the intrest and borrwoing rates is not what they have in mind. Alex Salmond is selling a lie he is a conman the type of second hand salesman you get in old American tv shows with crappy suits a receding hairline and an expanding wasteline. His idea of patroitism is how many saltires you can in the picture, the SNP have spent over £300k on scottish flags to hand out and he even wears a St. Andrews cross pin on his suit much like Bush with the stars and stripes
RE: No to Scottish Independence - Doddle - 30-01-2012 16:22
It beats me why the Scots have put up with Alex Salmond and his Moses Complex for so long. His attitude to the English always seems to me somewhat Nick Griffin-like
The closest I get to Scotland (besides supporting Scottish footy teams) is having read the Sunday Post for 25+ years
RE: No to Scottish Independance - SeanTheDon - 30-01-2012 16:25
(30-01-2012 16:22 )Doddle Wrote: The closest I get to Scotland (besides supporting Scottish footy teams) is having read the Sunday Post for 25+ years
Great paper,Broons and Oor Wullie FTW
RE: No to Scottish Independance - Pyro - 30-01-2012 19:42
Great thread by the way
A seriously don't get the fuck-wit(Alex Salmond)!!! I'm mean all he goes on about is independent Scotland but still wants to keep ties with England
Their is so many questions I'd like to put forth to Alex
1. As and Independent country will the Scottish people pay ther own tax or will the English help out???
2. Who the hell is gonna defend Scotland as the majority of the armed forces are English. Who gets what e.g Scots get three 42 type destroyers and England keep 12!!
3.Will Scotland have a nuclear deterrent??? Or because he wants to stay in the Commonwealth England will have to feel obliged to help Scotland out??
4. Will Scotland pay their share on the National debt because Salmond said on a paper that "it's Englands mess and Scotland ain't paying nothing"!!!!
5. Will Scotland still get free NHS and Universties??? If so who pays for it???
Hope it doesn't come across Anti-Scots southsidestu, be intresting what you would say!!!
RE: No to Scottish Independance - southsidestu - 30-01-2012 20:54
^
I don't see you as anti scottish mate, i can't answer all your question because we don't know them. How a party that has been going for 50 years conceived on the very idea of independance cannot answer every question is beyond incompetance.
As far as defence Salmond does not want Scotland to have a nuclear deterrant. I would imagine we would have a small army but our main protection would come from him wanting us still being part of the UK so that we remain a member of NATO and permantley on the UN Security council
As far as the taxes go he has said that as part of our independance we would be able to set our own tax rates.
I don't know about the national debt but i would hope so i don't like the idea of us taking all the benefits of the UK but none of the responsibilites and downsides. This is why i am in favour of the UK staying in the EU and was opposed to Cameron's veto. I hate it when people in the right say that they want to trade with Europe and have good economic ties but don't to be in the EU, to me it sounds like they don't want to play the game but they want the rewards to it, turning the UK into Europe's benefit cheats. Likewise the same scenario for an independant Scotland still a membe rof the UK