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Man 'murdered/lawfully killed' by american police - terence - 14-12-2017 22:30
police assasinate some poor fucker just because:
i've seen alot of these, mostly black victims but this is one of the worst. murder plain and simple.
RE: Holy Shit, did that just happen? - TickleTheOrc - 21-12-2017 06:04
(14-12-2017 22:30 )terence Wrote: police assasinate some poor fucker just because:
i've seen alot of these, mostly black victims but this is one of the worst. murder plain and simple.
Well. To be honest. I rewatched this video a couple times to be sure.
Daniel Shaver for some insane reason, repeatedly reaches his hands behind his back. Hiding his hands from view of the police officers. This is not exactly a thing you want to be doing when the officer has his weapon trained on you.
The time Daniel was shot, was the 2nd time he attempted to reach for his waist.
Not sure if the WashingtonPost's video was longer then the Young Turks.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/12/08/graphic-video-shows-daniel-shaver-sobbing-and-begging-officer-for-his-life-before-2016-shooting/?utm_term=.1972613c9ba4
If they wanted to make a case against a Cop for shooting someone. This was not it.
As much as I'd want to say the Cop was wrong, I'd think most people in his position and firearms training would have shot Daniel Shaver.
RE: man 'murdered/lawfully killed' by american police - terence - 21-12-2017 13:25
i posted this in another thread because i thought it was pretty cut and dry but after reading tto's well reasoned rebuke i thought i might open it up to the forum.
could be interesting.
RE: Man 'murdered/lawfully killed' by american police - munch1917 - 21-12-2017 16:40
Having watched, I'm of the mind that this was, at the very least, unlawful killing. Throughout, the general attitude and behaviour of the cop was unacceptable, that is not how you treat a suspect.
Listening to the very beginning of the discussion after, they make the simple point, 'go over there and put the cuffs on the guy'. Why did the cop not simply do that? If you watch any kind of movie or police drama, you will never see a cop behaving towards a suspect like this.
Yes, the guy reaches behind his back, but I don't think it is for 'some insane reason', the guy is clearly sobbing, he is scared witless, and trying to do as the cop tells him, while the cop is telling him point blank 'get this wrong and I will kill you', that is a pretty scary place to be for anyone, and not surprising that he is getting things mixed up.
The cop shoots when his hand goes behind his back, but that isn't really a threatening situation, it only really becomes threatening when his hand comes back round because he could potentially have something there, although he has been laying on the ground face down, the cop has had a clear view of him, enough to see if there was likely to be a weapon back there.
For me its simple, you get the guy on the ground, face down, hands on his head, feet crossed, that's where you want him to be, that's where he is of little threat to you, so why did the cop then make him get back up and crawl? He created the situation that led to the guy's death, and shot him when he was still of little threat. It seemed more a case of 'I warned you I'd do it, so I'm gonna do it'.
Whether you go so far as to call it murder I don't know, but for me it's certainly an unlawful death, and the cop needs to undergo some serious retraining in dealing with suspects before being let loose.
RE: Man 'murdered/lawfully killed' by american police - Bandwagon - 21-12-2017 17:54
I think it was murder.
This piece of shit copper placed a million fiery hoops for this poor guy to jump through, knowing he was bound to make a mistake sooner or later and that was the whole point wasn't it.
He could easily have ended that situation quickly and without firing a single bullet.
Complete dick needs putting in prison for sure, who needs fucking trigger-happy heroes like that roaming the streets with a licence to kill
RE: Man 'murdered/lawfully killed' by american police - Whynot - 21-12-2017 21:10
In November Nuno Cardoso became the fifth black man to die after restraint from uk police this year. The IPCC will investigate but as ever no action will be taken. I pray uk police never get guns!!
RE: Man 'murdered/lawfully killed' by american police - Tumble_Drier - 21-12-2017 21:24
He opened fire on the 3rd time the suspect either tried, or actually did put his hands behind his back. Hardly Trigger Happy considering they're trained to take that as a sign of someone going for a weapon.
Also, the Woman managed to do exactly as she was told and walked away.
RE: Man 'murdered/lawfully killed' by american police - Bandwagon - 21-12-2017 22:28
Perhaps this copper just handled it very badly, but the cocky attitude he displays doesn't help his cause.
And why did he feel the need to try and make him dance like a fucking circus bear rather than moving forward and getting the cuffs on? There's something very wrong about the way he handled this situation.
RE: Man 'murdered/lawfully killed' by american police - TickleTheOrc - 22-12-2017 06:45
Just clarify the situation in which the police officer shot.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver
According to a police report, Daniel Leetin Shaver (December 29, 1989 – January 18, 2016), a pest-control worker and resident of Granbury, Texas, had been staying at a Mesa La Quinta Inn & Suites on business. He invited two acquaintances to his room for drinks. There he showed them a scoped air rifle he was using to exterminate birds inside grocery stores. At one point the gun was pointed outside his hotel window, prompting a witness to notify the front desk; the police were immediately called. Upon arrival, police gave Shaver and his acquaintance's detailed orders for several minutes, with frequent admonitions that failing to comply with them would get them shot.[3]
Eventually, Shaver was ordered to crawl on the floor towards them. While complying with their request, Shaver, who was intoxicated and could be heard sobbing, begging officers, "Please don't shoot," brought his hands toward his waist. Police Sergeant Charles Langley yelled at Shaver that if he did anything that deviated from his instructions he would shoot him and he probably would not survive. The officer told Shaver to put his hands up in the air and not to bring them down for any reason. A few seconds later, the officer ordered Shaver to crawl towards him, to which Shaver complied. Shaver then reached his right hand back towards his waistband, at which point Langley can be heard yelling "Don't!" while Officer Phillip Brailsford simultaneously opened fire with his AR-15 rifle, striking Shaver five times and killing him almost instantly. Shaver was unarmed.
So what is the chain of events that lead to his death?
1. Bringing out a scoped air rifle in a place where firearms are not normally seen.
2. Pointing that air rifle out a window, causing a witness that didn't know it was a air rifle to call the police.
3. When the police arrive, they ask if he's drunk. He replies NO. Though he clearly is drunk, yet unable to admit to the police with firearms trained on him that he is.
Keep in mind, the officer speaking and the officer that fires on Shaver are 2 completely different people.
Police Sergeant Charles Langley is the person yelling at Shaver in the video.
Officer Phillip Brailsford is the one that opened fire.
From that point on it was simply a shit show that lead to Shaver being shot.
The police were thinking they were dealing with a dangerous armed idiot.
Shaver was drunk and unable to clearly follow orders or keep his hands exposed without reaching for his back.
To sum things up. The police are not best people in dealing with stupid.
RE: Man 'murdered/lawfully killed' by american police - TickleTheOrc - 22-12-2017 07:18
(21-12-2017 22:28 )Bandwagon Wrote: Perhaps this copper just handled it very badly, but the cocky attitude he displays doesn't help his cause.
And why did he feel the need to try and make him dance like a fucking circus bear rather than moving forward and getting the cuffs on? There's something very wrong about the way he handled this situation.
I'd think the reason why the person voiced on the video sounds cocky is that it was kind of his job to be that way? It is the Police Sergeant's voice we hear on the body cam. The officer whose body cam we are looking through is not speaking.
======================
Think of it this way.
You are a police officer.
You get a call about a possible armed suspects at a hotel room.
You go out there armed to deal with that situation.
You arrive at the reported location and get 2 suspects exiting the reported room.
Your loud boss then proceeds to shout orders at the 2 suspects.
Both suspects are asked if they are drunk. Both reply No.
One of the suspects is able to follow orders and is taken away.
Suspect 2 is not clearly following orders. He's unarmed, but is making multiple attempts to hide his hands from view.
People keep asking why don't they just go up and handcuff the guy?
Well, the police don't know know how many people in the hotel room.
Tactically, they are trained to breach in a certain manner.
They're order to get Shaver away from the hotel room door is geared so they don't put one of their own in a situation between them and more possible suspects if a firefight ensues.
Think of it as a rule to prevent "friendly" fire.
Shaver was basically throwing a wrench into this rule by being unable to promptly follow orders from police with adrenaline running through their veins.
Shaver also amped things up by reaching behind his back. At that point, any mistake on his part pretty much guaranteed his death. We see that fatal mistake when his right arm reaches for his waist while crawling.
The only boon of the body cam is that we see what the officer sees and hears. Was it a mistake to shoot Shaver. Yes. Would most people with firearms training have shot Shaver. Yes. Whose at most fault? Mostly Shaver sadly from what I'm seeing.