Oh good, someone else speaking on behalf of someone else, speaking on behalf of somebody else who I'm told can actually speak for themself...
Unholy long post imminent..
josh1979 Wrote:Nigma Wrote:You created a poll to get an answer YOU wanted. You skewed it towards getting such an answer by adding an additional option that was emotively loaded and supported your intent.
Poll: Do you want Paige to get her boobs out on Babestation
I think you need to go to specsavers. How is he trying to support his view with the poll title. Seems skewed the other way. Whats wrong with the options? How are they loaded? Are the yes/no options unavailable to select?
I think you actually need to re-read what BigKarl said of his intentions and the question itself, which asks for the voters opinion, yet gives an option that doesn't require it...
The question itself requires a simple yes or no answer - it's binary. Instead, because BigKarl wanted to show paige what he believed was true, he's added an additional answer that only suits his aim and has no place in the original question. Again, taking out the ridiculous consent implication it introduces for a moment (we'll get back to that) the poll essentiall becomes
[ ] Yes
[ ] No
[ ] Unrelated, redundant PC response
It's asks for an opinion from the voter and then offers a TOTALLY redundant option which suits the PC feelgood angle BigKarl himself admitted he was going for.
Now add in that not only is the third option completely redundant given that whether or not it's Paige's decision has NEVER been in question, and then add that it doesn't relate to the question "Do
you want Paige to get her boobs out" - not "do you think Paige should be forced to get her boobs out?" or even "do you think paige should have the choice to get her boobs out? "which is exactly what that option aims to imply. The third option is out of context and serves the sole purpose of introducing the issue of consent in something where consent has never been questioned.
It loads the poll, dodges the original question, and sets up the implication that voting for one of the other options goes against Paige's wishes.
[ ] Yes
[ ] No
Does not imply going against her consent, because the question asks for the opinion of the person doing the voting. There is no reason for the third option other than to lead the poll and introduce the notion that the matter of consent has been questioned and others have suggested going against it. And again, the question of consent hadn't even come up until it was raised in this poll.
josh1979 Wrote:He never said he spoke for the Majority. Everyone can speak for themselves. You seem to assume a lot.
Setting aside the irony of your little specsavers remark, allow me to requote:
bigKarlUK Wrote:the poll was meant for paige to show that the majority were with her on her choice
Yep, he quite clearly assumed his opinion was that of the majority. That, by his own words, was his reasoning for creating this poll - he assumed he spoke for the majority and created a poll expecting it to show as much - but he wasn't confident enough in a simple yes/no so added the ambiguous and out of place PC option in order to lead it.
josh1979 Wrote:...various answers to the whys..
Apologies for the summary quote, but it's neccesary because you've missed the point.
BigKarl said:
BigKarlUK Wrote:i respect the decision and think she shouldnt come under critisicm for that choice from certain members of the forum
Those whys were questioning why Paige, unlike any other girl on the babe channels, or any other poster here, or person in the world, should be exempt from critisism?
He doesn't think she should be critisized. He wants to "finish" the discussion because he doesn't want her critisized.
Why would she be exempt? why the special treatment? and why should she be held on a pedestal beyond reproach, critisism or even questioning?
There is no good reason. None. Well, not unless the site's taking a transition into a Paige fan service, sanctuary and tribute site.
Go through this site, you'll see plenty of girls coming under critisism, channel producers, OFCOM, camera men - all for their performance, choices, actions and even looks. Why should Paige be exempt?
There's no good answer.
BUT, seeing as you've tried to answer those why's let cut to a few of them, starting with the kicker.
josh1979 Wrote:What you're saying is that by Paige choosing to not go topless, she is exposed to criticism?
Yes.
Or more precisely, just like any other girl on the shows, and indeed any other person, her choices and actions are subject to critisism as well as praise.
For example, if she chooses to do the night shows and not get naked while all the other girls are and the very nature of the show is adult entertainment and nudity, then yeah - it's to be expected that she'll be critisized for that by some who would naturally expect more and perhaps see some hypocrisy in that decision. Other girls are and have been, why is Paige any different?
josh1979 Wrote:Paige can more than handle herself. If someone spreads lies about her, she will defend herself.
Yet we have people speaking on her behalf. Defending her on her behalf. Making assumptions of her behalf. And trying to stifle critisism and present the image of overwhelming support.
The difference is that I assume that if she is mature and capable enough to make decisions like working on these shows, going onto the adult themed nightshows and whether or not to go topless, she's mature enough to know what such choices may bring and handle that herself.
Those trying to stifle critisism, present a fluffy outlook of widespread support and shelter her from anything but praise, don't seem to have the same confidence.
and onto my favorite..
josh1979 Wrote:Dont think Paige will waste her time on a forum member who was gutted that she didnt go topless. Are you that aggrieved?
Spiffy.
I don't care about Paige going topless - sure, I'm pro bewbs, but I've seen the pics, been there, done that, and wasn't that interested in the first place. You're assuming that since I'm questioning the dodgy poll, misplaced indignation towards critisism about her and attempts to silence said critisism, that I'm one of the aggrieved.
You're so damn defensive about her that's it's become a matter of "them or us", "with us or against us". Why the hell people are getting so damn obsessed and defensive over one girl I don't know, but it's quite apparent and it's getting a whole lot worse and a lot more problematic seeing as it's moved onto point scoring, pedestal raising and amateur censorship.
josh1979 Wrote:It takes a very shallow person to criticise someone for standing up for themselves and to not be pressured into doing something that they are not ready to do.
Right here - this is just more of that protect the princess nonesense.
Apparently she's strong enough to make her own decisions, stand up for herself and not be pressured, BUT apparently she shouldn't be critisized, needs reassurance and protection from critisism because it could pressure her into doing something she doesn't want to do..
Holy condesending contradiction, Batman!
...
Look, josh1979 I've already addressed this one towards BigKarl. In fact, he seems an okay guy so I've tried to keep it as civil as possible, which is no mean feat considering how touchy a subject this is. But, for whatever reason (blind friendship, team Paige, protect the pedestal, whatever..) you've decided to join the fun, take up the "them or us" stance and speak for him. That's great, fun for all, and a good way trying to get a discussion sidetracked and shut down with a flame inspired thread lock, but I really can't be arsed with it.
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