Telford

When people say you cannot criticise Islam, I am waiting to see headlines like these on any other religion in our country. It is headlines like these that has fed extremist organisations like Britain First and The EDL who have been found to directly influence Darren Osborne, the Finsbury Park attacker, and his murder of a Muslim man. My advice to anyone who says you can't criticise is Islam is check yourself.

Going to the points Jack the Nipper made, first of all arranges marriages are not only found in Islam, they are a custom of many cultures including our own until recently in our history and Hindu society.

Their courts treat men superior to women, so me a society where men are not treated superior to woman. I will point out that several Muslim nations have had female heads of state: Bangladesh has had two same as us, Pakistan, Mali, Kyrgyzstan, Indonesia, Senegal and Kosovo have all had female heads of state compared with none for Western countries such as US, France, Italy and Spain

As for stoning people to death, it should be noted that these things happen in Tyrannical dictatorship countries like Iran or Saudi Arabia that are Muslim majority but not in democratic Muslim countries like Indonesia and Malaysia.

Another cultural aspect that his attributed to Islam is FGM because it largely takes place in Muslim majority countries like Somalia is seen as an Islamic cultural problem but in reality it is an East African cultural problem as FGM is also carried out on the majority of girls in Eritrea which is has a vast majority Christian population. Looking at other Islamic nation like Turkey, Pakistan, Indonesia and Malaysia you find that these countries have very low levels of FGM

As far as homosexuality it should be pointed out that of the 80 or so countries that still criminalise homosexuality around half of them are former British colonies adhering to laws against homosexuality that were put in place following our own penal codes. I shall also take this opportunity to point out that in this country we took one of our greatest individuals, Alan Turing, and charged him with crimes related to homosexuality and subjected him to forced "treatment" that involved strapping him down and injecting him with hormones

As for honour killings yes it is an aspect of some Muslim communities there are about 5,000 honour killings a year in a religion of 1.8 billion but these issues are multi-faceted and relies heavily on a patriarchal society that has a negative view on woman. Some may argue that that is a problem within Islam and there is truth to that but as I have pointed out where is there not a patriarchal society that has a negative view on woman?

You may now precede to call me a lefty snowflake who is unwilling to criticise Islam and who is in turn causing Telford

^ Well said.

Look this is not a Muslim thing. No way have the various grooming gang scandals around the country been a sign that all muslim men are likely to do this. People with real knowledge will tell you that you don't find Middle Eastern Muslims doing this or those from other parts of the world. It is a Pakistani Cultural thing involving men who just happen to be Muslims. I don't hear people saying 85% of all rapes are carried out by Christian White Men (but they are carried out by white men).

Jack Straw was criticised years ago when he said it was a Pakistani cultural thing yet he has been proven to be correct. He's not being racist and neither am I but the issue needs to be faced up to. This Daily Politics item pulls no punches in sating this.

BBC Daily Politics 15/3

Item starts at 37:23

^^ didnt Jack straw only say what he said when he wasnt standing for relection in blackburn a city with a high immigrant population from pakistan who are very vocal when it comes to local politics. and has become very segregated in the last 20 years since i went to college there.

I dont think its a muslim problem but the perception usally made up by the right wing that it is. Im guessing muslim child molestors in Saudi Arabia Iran or Pakistan get dealt with a lot harsher than here

would love to know what the ages of these men who conduct theses crimes. Are they first generation immigrants or 2nd or 3rd who have lived here longer and maybe less likely to commit these crimes

Labour really needs to get its act in order esp in the north they seem to condone it so they keep the asian votes in elections if thats the case they should be ashamed of themselves

Letting stuff like this go on and doing nothing will only lead to more right wing partys and groups take hold

Im sure they said that guy who drove that van into the finsbury park mosque had become outraged after seeing that drama 3 Girls about rochdale

No one is saying that a lot of these crimes are exclusively committed by muslims but there are certain crimes which are inextricably linked to them. Yes rapes are committed by men of all ages and races but grooming gangs and rape gangs are linked heavily to Muslims and or other south asian people. But ultimately nothing will majorly change. Because all of the disgusting "people" who took part in these disgusting crimes will probably be let of because they "didn't know what they were doing is wrong" and other gems the left use to protect political correctness and Multiculturalism.

If you look through all religions a lot don't hold women very highly, difference is by and large a lot have evolved. Arab and islamic countries haven't overly evolved with that view of women. Women weren't allowed to vote until 1918 even then it wasn't all women. In some Arab countries women are only just allowed to drive!!

The large part of this problem is the Immigration of people from the "Hardcore" areas of muslim/Islam countries,in those countries women aren't held highly. Especially countries like war ravaged Iraq and are hateful of the west. Western society is by no ways perfect but highlighting our imperfections to sort of defend their's i don't buy.

The reason they have been denied the ability to drive is not because of the Islamic faith its because they are dictatorships that use draconian measures to keep people in place and stop a revolutions. Dictatorships cannot allow themselves to modernise or they risk collapsing. Allowing woman to drive is like a drip and drab system keep them happy after all that which is inflexible is likely to break. It's like what Western countries do with trickle down economics, give the rich a tax break and the tiniest bit may filter down to the general public and keep him them content. As i have said these types of things do not happen in Islamic democracies

There dictatorships that follow the hardcore side of Islam. The one which basically allows any man to do what they want to there wife or wives. Women are not held in great esteem in these places, if as a women hardcore islam is so brilliant to live in then why are more and more women in Iran risking imprisonment or worse removing their Burkhas in public.

In other words they aren't going to change? There's more Islamic dictatorships then democracies. In these countries they cant and won't evolve because they'd be revolution. The hardcore side is the major problem which needs to be removed at least from western society.

Dictatorships breed hardcore religoius people not the other way around

And why does that happen???? BECAUSE THE DICTATOR FOLLOWS AND ENFORCES THE HARDCORE SIDE OF THE RELIGION/IDEALOGY!!! They use that side to suppress the people. People wouldn't follow the hardcore side if it wasn't for the dictatorship!!

It has a severe nasty side to it which is basically a cancer which has spread. But as i've said nothing will change because of the Political correct/multiculturalist's which will no doubt appear to clampdown but ultimately not really do anything because it will reflect badly on their multicultural dream!!! I have a feeling that many, many more white girls will have to suffer or have suffered because of this.

It happens because Western Democracies like ours prop up those dictatorships with money and weapons in exchange for oil and regional stability

The Dictators use that money and weapons to keep their people in check, whilst embezzling the nations money for themselves creating poverty which leads to people becoming radicalised.

The US army carried out a study showing the main cause of radicalisation in these groups and it was not religion. Take the attack on the holiday resort in Tunisia a few years back. Our media framed this as an attack on us because Westerners holiday there but it was more than that. Tourism is one of the main industries in Tunisia's economy by attacking the tourist industry and scaring off customers it would create a downturn, this would lead to job losses and vulnerable individuals would, in desperation, turn to groups like ISIS because they pay their fighters. It was a recruitment drive.

It should be noted that ISIS are made up of former Bathists who were not religious extremists but Arab Nationalists, there have been reports that the leaders are not that religious they dont pray to Mecca 5 times a day etc. There was also a story of British people of Muslim heritage going to fight with ISIS and they took out a book titled Islam for dummies. Meanwhile individuals who are well versed in Islam went over there because of their desire to live in an Islamic State as opposed to being in ISIS wanting to come back because of how awful it is. It's interesting that in these two cases the people who knew nothing of Islam wanted to be part of ISIS and those who were followers of Islam wanted nothing to do with it.

Another observation is look at the people who are part of these extremist organisations what do they have in common? They are all young males. If they are all going to the same Mosques being preached to by the same Imans and reading from the same Quaran why are they mostly young males. The oldest of the 9/11 attackers was in his early 30's, the 7/7 bombers, Westminster bridge, Manchester, the market in London all carried out by young males. Look beyond Islamic attacks, Anders Breivik, Dylan Roof, Colombine, Elliot Rodgers, Virginia Tech, Sandy Hook all young males. Sure some attacks like Las Vegas and the murder of Jo Cox were carried out by older individuals and San Bernadino and the shooting at Cleveland Elementary School involved woman and these terrorist organisations are run by older individuals the bulk of these groups/incidents are made of/carried out by young males. It's a common dominator that sticks when religion doesnt

Religions such as Islam do play a part i am not denying that, they are used as a propaganda tool but they are not the root cause. If there was no such thing as Islam ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Al Nusra et all would still exist

Right got it, it has nothing to do with Islam. I have been converted to south side stu the snowies view!! Lol!!They USE parts of it that’s fit there mantra and cleverly omit other aspects. It may not be the lot cause but it plays a big part. They manipulate what they want from the religion and twist it, ISIS wouldn’t exist without a twisted part of Islam being included. Why is it that every place liberated from ISIS control do they remove or cut off the stupid clothes and beards they have to wear or grow? They oppress the people with a HARDCORE brand of the religion.

The young are the most impressionable, feed them a few “oh the western society doesn’t support you or the west are infidels and have killed your brothers and sister” and jobs half done. They don’t all go to the same mosque but in these mosques there are hate preachers which don’t take to kindly to us and they travel around mosques. Whether there young or not the religion plays a massive part however small there exposure to it is.

Yes we have “propped up” some of the dictatorships in return for access to oil and other things. Saudi hands are all over terror attacks it’s a widely know fact. So because a lot of attacks a perpetrated by young people it has very little to do with Islam? Right gotcha. Because Islam is only followed by 40 plus year old!!