Is Porn Prostitution?

(15-07-2010 15:03 )loulo12 Wrote:  I always thought prostitution was illegal too.

That's understandable, I think most people in the UK think it's illegal. Some of the stuff around it is illegal, such as soliciting and kerb-crawling and that might be what causes the confusion.

Interesting question.

In a way, it IS, yet they are doing it for the viewers, and not so much for their own pleasure. While I'm not a huge fan of B/G porn, in a way it's no different than watching boxing. That's right, boxing, or UFC fights. Fighting in public is illegal, and people are charged with assault, and having sex in public will get you arrested and a charge of indecency or worse. However, an organized fight such as boxing or UFC matches are legal, even though people are beating the hell out of each other, which is pretty sick. The fact that there are rules, and that money can be made from it, is why it's allowed to happen, and the same can be said for porn. Sure, they're having sex for the whole world to see, but the performers are selected and tested for STD'S, and there's a lot of money to be made from it as well. Sad, but money talks, and that's why the escort agencies are still around today, and the street prostitutes are few and far between.

There's no difference between getting pleasure from watching two guys beat each other, and watching a man and a woman have sex. As long as there's a demand for it, and if it can be relatively safe and controlled, then this stuff will be around forever. The times now are not much different than ancient Rome.

(15-07-2010 15:01 )loulo12 Wrote:  

Quote:They are both being paid to perform in a profession that is not illegal

Yes I read that, and if you speaking from purely a legal view point then fair enough.

Loulo, you wanted to know what the difference was and I gave my answer. Whether we like it or not, what's legal (loopholes and all) has to figure in it somewhere. Personally, I can also see a distinction between the two entities.

(15-07-2010 15:01 )loulo12 Wrote:  

Quote:but I imagine it is illegal because of the way in which vulnerable people can be dragged into it. Girls can be forced into it through addiction and therefore the drug trade is perpetuated, by way of kidnap and trafficking or even be sold into it by desperate families.

I'd imagine so can porn. How many porn actors do it for the money because they are addicted to stuff? How many have signed contracts and are ordered to have sex with whoever they are ordered to and turn to drunk and drugs because of the lifestyle? Is Tracy Lords prude of her career? and what did she blame it on? I don't think the porn industry is the glossy safe place people seem to think it is.

I'm not suggesting porn is 100% safe and I imagine there are proper scumbags out there, set up solely to take advantage of people. I acknowledged that in my original post - I said I wasn't naive enough to believe porn was blameless. I can't tell you the answers to the numerous questions you posed in that paragraph, but I'll bet you can't either.

(15-07-2010 15:01 )loulo12 Wrote:  Your talking as if it's just the odd one or two incidents to go wrong. I was watching a programme on tv about a wannabe porn star went for an interview at a 'respectable' porn studio (sadly can't remember the programme), first thing the fella did when he walked into the office was turn her round and fuck her. Wasn't even being filmed, didn't even ask if she minded, she was there to be fucked and so he did, and this is with the documentary camera crew there!! Later when filming a scene he was choking her so bad that the documentary makers had to step in. Goodness knows what it would have been like when they weren't there, wish I could remember the title. To alot of porn people, women are just an asset, a peice of meat. There's always lenty to replace them

I never alluded to any numbers of incidents at all, because I simplly do not know. You are simply exaggerating, if not mis-quoting me for the benefit of your own arguement.

Who is this wannabe porn star? What's the name of the 'respectable' studio? What's the documentary's title? Why didn't the crew submit the film to the Police, because what you just described sounds like rape to me? You later go on to accuse me of generalisation, yet you can't produce any kind of evidence yourself to back your claims?

(15-07-2010 15:01 )loulo12 Wrote:  There was another programme, I think it was following a very well known porn maker in this country. Perfectly up and above board makers, she went to do the scene, there where three blokes there, one for the scene then the two others, however didn't stop the other two from fucking her for no apparently reason, they girl just placidly took it as if it was part of the job. The documentary maker ask her about it, she just shrugged, but it was clear that this girl and the other one above just weren't in their right minds.

So the girls were clearly not in their right minds? So clearly not in their right minds, that neither of the two documentary crews thought it so disturbing that they called the authorities? You don't think there's maybe just a little chance, just a little one, that this was all a bit of a set-up for the documentary makers? If you can point me to the programmes I'll definitely check them out, but other than that, I can't really comment any further on them because I can't verify your claims.

(15-07-2010 15:01 )loulo12 Wrote:  I have read recently that Christ Marks has just dissapeard and gave up the industry, it seems she had very bad issues, over a man leaving her, this may have been the reason she went into porn from self worthlessness, even writing gloomy poems.

I left my job 3 months ago over bad issues. I have, as you probably have, had relationships that go wrong and fall apart. Don't know what else I can say to this part - it's a bit vague.

(15-07-2010 15:01 )loulo12 Wrote:  

Quote:, against a majority of women caught up in supporting a drug habit or being forced into a lifestyle they wouldn't choose if they had the choice.

Dude, your generalising here. What's your evidence that most are drug addicts?

Oh, my evidence? No problem, happy reading -

Glasgow prostitute murders - All 7 just happened to be drug addicts. Coincidence?
http://www.thecopybureau.co.uk/jeanraffe...itutes.htm

The police say there are more than 1,000 women, 93 per cent of them drug addicts, who take to Glasgow's streets regularly.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/nov/26...heobserver

Study by BMJ into drug use and HIV infection among Glasgow street-working prostitutes.
'Of the 206 streetworking women contacted 147 (71%) were injecting drug users. About 1150 women are estimated to work on the streets in Glasgow over a 12 month period.'
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/short/305/6857/801

I'm just going to go ahead and say that with figures between 71-93%, that would indeed constitute the majority of prostitutes being drug users.

And finally...

(15-07-2010 15:01 )loulo12 Wrote:  Most porn actresses have no financial need?

I NEVER said that.

(15-07-2010 15:01 )loulo12 Wrote:  all prostitutes are crack whores?

I NEVER said that.

(15-07-2010 15:01 )loulo12 Wrote:  And rapes and murders don't happen in the porn world?

I NEVER said that. I strongly advise you never to mis-quote me or anyone in here again.

(15-07-2010 15:01 )loulo12 Wrote:  Dude you have a seriously rose tinted view of it.

Dude? Dude? Are we in America? I hardly think pointing out legalities is rose-tinted. Once again and for the final time, I refer to previous answer

(15-07-2010 15:01 )loulo12 Wrote:  God knows what goes on in east European country's or even in Britain and America.

Do you know, or are YOU just generalising...dude?

(15-07-2010 15:01 )loulo12 Wrote:  Your top porn studios may be absolutely fine. Buy how many are there compared to the amount of porn produced?

Not sure, wasn't aware I had to find out. I'm sure you'll let me know how many.

(15-07-2010 15:01 )loulo12 Wrote:  You mention drug addicts, I'd say at least they have a reason for doing it

Yeah, being a junkie makes much more fucking sense than earning a bit of extra cash for junior's Christmas present.

(15-07-2010 15:01 )loulo12 Wrote:  porn people do it pure and simply for the money, with (according to you) no other reason than that

Mis-quote me just one more fucking time! You asked if they'd do it if they weren't getting paid for it. I posed the same question to you, asking if you would work for nothing? At no time did I write 'porn people do it pure and simply for the money - it's a career choice'.

I'm done.

Thank you very much for my nomination in
Best Cap or Cap Set Of The Year 2013
for Dannii Harwood Posts 781 & 782

(15-07-2010 14:59 )DanniPandemos Wrote:  Sorry, I will quote you on it

Prostitution/being a prostitute is legal. It's legal to pay for and have sex with a prostitute unless the prostitute has been coerced/forced into it or is, of course, underage.

If you're a prostitute it's perfectly legal to live off your earnings, but it's illegal for third-parties (i.e. pimps, brothel owners etc) to live off the proceeds of prostitution.

Thanks for the post. You are correct in much of what you say:

Strictly speaking, prostitution has always been legal in the UK, in the sense that it is not illegal to pay for sex, or to receive money for it. But many of the activities that it involves - including soliciting, kerb-crawling, pimping, and keeping a brothel - are all against the law.

The Police and judiciary have rightly identified the problem as one which is so widespread, that it will in all likeliehood be here forever. That being the case, courts could barely function if they had to hear every case of prostitution being brought before them. Since 1959, The Police have been using the 'prostitute's caution', which unlike regular cautions does not require the women admit guilt first. However, Police are now more inclined to try to use the 1974 Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, especally with first time offenders. This would involve the caution, plus a mandatory meeting with representatives of the welfare department to ascertain what can be done to prevent the woman's need to sell herself.

However, it is within the Police's power to arrest repeat offenders for the crime, with the result being a fine of up to £500 rather than a custodial sentence. Inevitably, without being able to work to earn the money, the fine goes unpaid and the woman ends up in prison for non-payment of the fine. It's a vicious circle.
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Some reading if you're interested:

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/about-us/ho.../006-2010/

'Section 16 of the Policing and Crime Act 2009 (A non-criminal 'prostitute caution' can be issued at the discretion of the Police, but prosecution is possible, should the police find an offender to be persistent)'

The insertion of the word "persistently" provides opportunities for the police, where they encounter an individual engaging in street prostitution for the first time in any 3 month period, to direct that individual to non-criminal justice interventions. Such interventions may help the individual involved to address the issues that may have caused them to enter prostitution, such as drug dependency or historic sexual abuse and ultimately, to find routes out. Where successful, this approach can prevent vulnerable individuals from becoming involved in the CJS.

If it is decided that a criminal charge is necessary the police will want to consider whether an order under section 17 (see below paragraphs 55-58) may be appropriate and take early steps to explore this option in order that the CPS advise the court of the appropriateness of such an order following conviction.

http://www.newstatesman.com/200003060029

'But in contrast to Edinburgh, they chose to use the law at their disposal. After a series of cautions, a Glasgow prostitute can be charged - and then, in court, fined up to £500. Fining applies to many other offences, but in those cases the convicted are able to pay off the amounts over time. Prostitution is different. For some women, a continuation of the activity is the only sure way of finding the cash to pay off the fine. That is why, argue Lothian and Borders Police senior officers, it is counterproductive to set in motion the process leading up to fines.

But in Glasgow, in a snapshot survey contained in the "Where is She Tonight?" report, of 99 prostitutes 70 per cent had been fined. And a third were sent to prison for not being able to pay the fines. This hardly helps the agencies that are now trying to steer women away from prostitution.'

Thank you very much for my nomination in
Best Cap or Cap Set Of The Year 2013
for Dannii Harwood Posts 781 & 782

Quote:I NEVER said that. I strongly advise you never to mis-quote me or anyone in here again.

I never did say you said these things, it's not me manipulating what people have written but you are being sensitive and interpreting it incorrectly. I was just pointing out the counter argument to what looked VERY much like you was belittling the negative side of the porn and amplifying the negative side of people who go into prostitution.

You put your links as 'proof'. Selecting a few pages from the internet is proof of nothing my friend, I can just as easily place links to many porn stars who have commuted suicide when young after turning to drink and drugs. I could put you stories here of people like Linda Lovelace who claims to have been pimped by her husband and force to do porn at gun point. Or Tracy Lords again claiming it was drugs and advantaged takers.

Shady Cee, it's clear you are somebody that likes to argue. So I think I will bow out of this one.

Further more, I do not wish to 'debate' with someone so abusive and angry. Learn to read what I have written and not what you think I have.

We will agree to disagree, you have your point with the legality, I have taken this on board; I still have my own personal views, which is all I ever said they where. You seem a lot more heated up about this and more interested about this issue than I

Sheesh, I didn't even start the thread.

The purpose of this thread is not to provide people with a platform from which to attack either of these two industries, or the people who work within them.

As I have said in my previous post. There is nothing wrong with either profession provided reasonable steps are taken to ensure the safety of all parties concerned.

Obviously this is not always the case, and there are always going to be problems, exploitation and corruption, as with any industry.

The law is quite clear on both of these professions, and is not the subject of this debate.

Personally I do not see any difference between a person who gets paid to have sex, and a person who gets paid to have sex in front of a camera. But then that’s just my opinion.

(15-07-2010 18:07 )loulo12 Wrote:  You put your links as 'proof'. Selecting a few pages from the internet is proof of nothing my friend

One link in particular was to the British Medical Journal's survey results, because you challenged what I said about drug abuse. I'm just providing evidence of what I said, because you didn't believe me. Nothing more, nothing less! You in contrast, couldn't even remember the things you were supposedly using to back your arguement.

(15-07-2010 18:07 )loulo12 Wrote:  I can just as easily place links to many porn stars who have commuted suicide when young after turning to drink and drugs. I could put you stories here of people like Linda Lovelace who claims to have been pimped by her husband and force to do porn at gun point. Or Tracy Lords again claiming it was drugs and advantaged takers.

Granted, but again, I never said anything to suggest porn was a utopia where everything was lovely. I did acknowledge that it was not perfect and didn't elaborate further, but you were unbelievably flippant in response. You accused me of generalising and of looking through rose-coloured glasses, simply because I didn't cite examples of porn having a dark side. I think the contentious phrase was probably 'It's in a studio's best interests to look after their girls'. I wasn't saying they all did, but suggesting that they all should.

(15-07-2010 18:07 )loulo12 Wrote:  Shady Cee, it's clear you are somebody that likes to argue. So I think I will bow out of this one.

You know nothing about me. I would expect you to be angry had I posted a flippant response and constantly mis-quoting you. You're pretty new here and as such, maybe you don't understand how careful you need to be in responding. You used short sentences with question marks at the end, suggesting to anyone looking that they were paraphrased from my previous post. That is why you got such a strong response. And as for angry, I moved on as soon as I hit post and went elsewhere with a smile on my face. You were a fleeting blip on an otherwise clear radar.

Agree? Disagree? I'm not bothered about that, but I won't tolerate attitude and lies. If you feel I have been abusive, then I encourage you to hit the report button and a Moderator will take over. I'm serious, if you feel you have acted properly and not done any of the things I think you have, then report the post. You are quite entitled to do so and I promise I won't impede you in any way.

Thank you very much for my nomination in
Best Cap or Cap Set Of The Year 2013
for Dannii Harwood Posts 781 & 782

In a word: No.

No. Similarities obviously, from a financial point of view. But porn is entertainment where all participants are getting enjoyment. Prostitution is often something people turn to to make ends meet, a last resort, out of desperation more than choice. Sex is enjoyed in porn, whereas a prostitute will not always enjoy sex, but has to do it as a means to an end.

Quote:where all participants are getting enjoyment.

Quote:Sex is enjoyed in porn

Quote:prostitution (pros¦ti¦tu|tion)




Pronunciation:/ˌprɒstɪˈtʃuːʃn, "" ˌprɒstɪˈtjuːʃn/
noun
[mass noun]

*
the practice or occupation of engaging in sexual activity with someone for payment
*
the unworthy or corrupt use of one's talents for personal or financial gain

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/prostitution




The act is prostitution.