Russian Invasion Of Ukraine - misinformation thread

some of the deaths in Bucha could be reprisal attacks against 'Russian collaborators' by members of the Azov Battalion who arrived in Bucha a few days after the Russians left

The NYT themselves suggested this as a possibility but it was quickly disproved by satellite imagery, the stage of decomposition of the bodies, and independently verified witness accounts.

That didn't stop the pro-Russian outlets from jumping on it and trying to make it the narrative, though.

Russia completely exaggerated the Azov Battalion bogeyman for propaganda purposes, but there is extremism in it’s ranks and they have been responsible for a so-far unknown number of war crimes, but however much they turn out to be, they will be undoubtedly dwarfed in comparison to the scale of Russia’s responsibility for casualties and war-crimes

(28-04-2022 12:43 )The Silent Majority Wrote:  The NYT themselves suggested this as a possibility but it was quickly disproved by satellite imagery, the stage of decomposition of the bodies, and independently verified witness accounts.

That didn't stop the pro-Russian outlets from jumping on it and trying to make it the narrative, though.

- The Satellite imagery was from March
- Not all the bodies were is an advanced stage of decomposition, infact very few of them were.
- "independently verified witness accounts" have been verified apparently (sourced by Ukrainian security service SBU agents?), but in the light of all the facts, there must be doubt as to the accuracy of this verification. The other 'facts' are:
- After Russian troops left Bucha on Mar 30, the next day (Mar 31), the Mayor of Bucha announced the town was 'liberated', but made absolutely no mention of the atrocities.
Gov't video upon entrance into the city - where are the mounds of bodies? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7yIyNBMpQY&t=2s

- Azov Nazis entered Bucha on Apr 1/2

- Footage posted by Ukraine’s Defense Ministry and photographs from news agencies showed the bodies of men in civilian clothes on the streets of Bucha. Images showed some corpses with hands bound behind their back.

- Azov gangs are known for such atrocities. The infamous Azov member Sergey "Boatsman" Korotkikh is reported to have, around the time, posted a video titled "The BOATSMAN BOYS in Bucha." It appears that Ukrainian Nazis asked permission to shoot people without blue armbands. Were Boatman and his Nazi friends given the green-light to go around and shoot civilians who'd been Russian collaborators? Is the real truth that Ukrainian civilians who communicated/allied with Russia were executed by Ukrainian Nazis death squads from Azov Battalion?

Within minutes of the “breaking news” of these war-crimes, western leaders — heads of state, foreign ministers, former politicians — popped up with statements duly kept ready and only based on the videos, seconds-long videos and a clutch of photos, ready to pour accusations. No expert opinion was sought, no forensic work was done, no opportunity given to the accused to be heard. On April 4th, Russia requested the UN Security Council meet in session to discuss the situation in Bucha, but the request was refused by the UK - the current UN SC president
Ref: https://tass.com/politics/1431949?utm_so...ogle.co.za

(29-04-2022 21:28 )crankshaft Wrote:  Is the real truth that Ukrainian civilians who communicated/allied with Russia were executed by Ukrainian Nazis death squads from Azov Battalion?

No, there isn't a single shred of evidence that suggests such a thing. Many of the civilians were killed more than 3 weeks before you say they were. And there were plenty of witnesses.

Incidentally, German intelligence has radio intercepts of Russian soldiers discussing the atrocities they had committed (which they apparently didn't regard as anything exceptional).

Russia's request that the UN Security Council discuss Bucha was refused because their argument that the bodies were fake and all the deaths staged had already been disproven.

(29-04-2022 23:25 )4waydiablo Wrote:  

(29-04-2022 21:28 )crankshaft Wrote:  Is the real truth that Ukrainian civilians who communicated/allied with Russia were executed by Ukrainian Nazis death squads from Azov Battalion?

No, there isn't a single shred of evidence that suggests such a thing. Many of the civilians were killed more than 3 weeks before you say they were. And there were plenty of witnesses.

Incidentally, German intelligence has radio intercepts of Russian soldiers discussing the atrocities they had committed (which they apparently didn't regard as anything exceptional).

Russia's request that the UN Security Council discuss Bucha was refused because their argument that the bodies were fake and all the deaths staged had already been disproven.

sorry to say you've been hoodwinked

(29-04-2022 23:25 )4waydiablo Wrote:  Russia's request that the UN Security Council discuss Bucha was refused because their argument that the bodies were fake and all the deaths staged had already been disproven.

That was part of the reason, as the argument that Russia wanted to put to the UN Security Council that no civilians had been killed and the atrocities had all been staged wasn't being taken seriously, as you said. However, the main reason the UK gave for refusing Russia's request to discuss Bucha on 4 April was that the UN Security Council had already planned a meeting to discuss Bucha for the following day, 5 April, and the UK saw no reason to change the schedule. Russia simply had to wait another 24 hours, that was all.

(29-04-2022 21:28 )crankshaft Wrote:  Is the real truth that Ukrainian civilians who communicated/allied with Russia were executed by Ukrainian Nazis death squads from Azov Battalion?

Your story would make more sense if any of those named as collaborators were actually dead, but in reality none of them are. Most of them are under arrest. A few suspected collaborators have disappeared, but aren't believed to be among the dead.

(29-04-2022 21:28 )crankshaft Wrote:  - The Satellite imagery was from March
Azov Nazis entered Bucha on Apr 1/2

Exactly

(29-04-2022 21:28 )crankshaft Wrote:  - Not all the bodies were is an advanced stage of decomposition, infact very few of them were.

Many of those killed earlier had already been buried, often by their own family in their own back yard, or put in mass graves. These will all be to exhume.
The few left to rot were probably too dangerous to retrieve.
And the fresher the body, the more accurately the time of death can be determined.
Investigators from the ICC will, I'm sure, include forensic pathologists.

(29-04-2022 21:28 )crankshaft Wrote:  - "independently verified witness accounts" have been verified apparently (sourced by Ukrainian security service SBU agents?), but in the light of all the facts, there must be doubt as to the accuracy of this verification. The other 'facts' are:
- After Russian troops left Bucha on Mar 30, the next day (Mar 31), the Mayor of Bucha announced the town was 'liberated', but made absolutely no mention of the atrocities.

Human Rights Watch were in there, along with independent journalists from many countries.
Was the Mayor actually in Bucha when it was liberated? Genuine question, since he's still alive.
And Bucha wasn't 'liberated' in the true sense of the word. The Russians just fucked off.
Progress in would have been slow because of Russians booby-traps.

https://edmo.eu/2022/04/04/fact-checking...-massacre/

https://edmo.eu/2022/04/06/fact-checking...re-part-2/

(30-04-2022 02:22 )schvall Wrote:  

(29-04-2022 21:28 )crankshaft Wrote:  Is the real truth that Ukrainian civilians who communicated/allied with Russia were executed by Ukrainian Nazis death squads from Azov Battalion?

Your story would make more sense if any of those named as collaborators were actually dead, but in reality none of them are. Most of them are under arrest. A few suspected collaborators have disappeared, but aren't believed to be among the dead.

I'm sure the SBU don't publish their list of known and suspected collaborators