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+---- Thread: Russian Invasion Of Ukraine - misinformation thread (/showthread.php?tid=85907)
RE: Russian Invasion Of Ukraine - crankshaft - 30-04-2022 13:53
(30-04-2022 00:06 )CIA Snooper Wrote:(29-04-2022 23:25 )4waydiablo Wrote: Russia's request that the UN Security Council discuss Bucha was refused because their argument that the bodies were fake and all the deaths staged had already been disproven.
That was part of the reason, as the argument that Russia wanted to put to the UN Security Council that no civilians had been killed and the atrocities had all been staged wasn't being taken seriously, as you said. However, the main reason the UK gave for refusing Russia's request to discuss Bucha on 4 April was that the UN Security Council had already planned a meeting to discuss Bucha for the following day, 5 April, and the UK saw no reason to change the schedule. Russia simply had to wait another 24 hours, that was all.
Sorry, but that's nonsense. The UN Security Council explicitly refused Russia the right to give evidence the next day (Tuesday 5th April), since the Emergency meeting had one purpose and one purpose only - to kick Russia out of the UN Human Rights Council (although alot of countries abstained in the vote). There was a clear majority and they were duly kicked out because the consensus amongst all western governments was that Russia was guilty, with the case proven not in the UN Security Council but in the western media and by all our western government's leaders and spokespersons. No judicious process whatsoever, with evidence such as the video I sent of actual footage of Ukrainian tanks returning into Bucha after the Russians had left & no sight of any bodies on the roads or by the sides of the roads, and other evidence the Russians claim they have to prove that many atrocities were in fact carried out by Azov Battalion
RE: Russian Invasion Of Ukraine - crankshaft - 30-04-2022 13:58
(30-04-2022 08:29 )The Silent Majority Wrote: Was the Mayor actually in Bucha when it was liberated? Genuine question, since he's still alive.
Yes. Google it. Many press reports. He did speech at a press conference there on 31st March, whereupon he made no mention of scores of dead laying around everywhere
RE: Russian Invasion Of Ukraine - CIA Snooper - 30-04-2022 15:41
(30-04-2022 13:37 )crankshaft Wrote: I'm sure the SBU don't publish their list of known and suspected collaborators
Of course they do. If they haven't been arrested yet these people are WANTED.
Any information on those not yet accounted for would be gratefully received.
RE: Russian Invasion Of Ukraine - BarrieBF - 30-04-2022 16:06
(30-04-2022 13:53 )crankshaft Wrote: Sorry, but that's nonsense.
That's a bit cheeky, considering that your own claims are demonstrably wrong.
(30-04-2022 13:53 )crankshaft Wrote: The UN Security Council explicitly refused Russia the right to give evidence the next day (Tuesday 5th April)
That's false. Russian Ambassador Vassily Nebenzia spoke at great length at the UN Security Council meeting on 5 April. Nobody tried to stop him.
(30-04-2022 13:53 )crankshaft Wrote: the Emergency meeting had one purpose and one purpose only - to kick Russia out of the UN Human Rights Council (although alot of countries abstained in the vote).
That's false again. It was the UN General Assembly that voted to suspend Russia from the UN Human Rights Council, not the Security Council.
RE: Russian Invasion Of Ukraine - CIA Snooper - 30-04-2022 16:43
(30-04-2022 13:58 )crankshaft Wrote: Yes. Google it. Many press reports. He did speech at a press conference there on 31st March, whereupon he made no mention of scores of dead laying around everywhere
There doesn't appear to have been any press conference on 31 March. I think that's one of your many inventions. You're probably referencing the video he posted on Facebook on 1 April in which he mentions the date of 31 March.
You also state that the mayor made no mention of the dead in Bucha on that occasion, but you fail to mention that on several previous occasions he had in fact referred to the dead bodies laying around and the mass graves.
RE: Russian Invasion Of Ukraine - 4waydiablo - 30-04-2022 16:56
Yes Anatoliy Fedoruk the Mayor of Bucha had actually been denouncing the Russian atrocities for days before his 'liberation' speech that crankshaft is referring to.
RE: Russian Invasion Of Ukraine - Tumble_Drier - 30-04-2022 17:07
https://www.space.com/ukraine-mass-grave-bucha-satellite-photos
Satellite image of the Mass Grave in Bucha taken on March 31. Presumably the Azovs have access to Doc Brown's DeLorean if they managed to kill 150 people before they actually entered the town.
There's also images of the mass grave being started in early March
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/24/dozens-bucha-civilians-killed-flechettes-metal-darts-russian-artillery
Apparently the Azovs also have access to Russian Artillery.
RE: Russian Invasion Of Ukraine - george lusk - 01-05-2022 16:25
(30-04-2022 13:58 )crankshaft Wrote: He did speech at a press conference there on 31st March, whereupon he made no mention of scores of dead laying around everywhere
As others have pointed out, there was no press conference on 31 March and anyway the Mayor of Bucha had already mentioned the scores of dead laying around on several occasions before that date.
However, I would add that BEFORE the 43 second 'liberation' video posted by the Mayor on the evening of 1 April, the secretary of Bucha town council had posted his own video in which bodies did get mentioned.
In that Facebook video, posted on the morning of 1 April, residents were warned that the town was not yet entirely free of Russian troops. They were also warned about the bodies lying in the streets.
Again, this is before the Mayor's video. It was the morning of 1 April. "Do not touch the bodies of the dead, which have been lying for a long time. There is a high probability that they are mined."
RE: Russian Invasion Of Ukraine - crankshaft - 01-05-2022 21:47
(30-04-2022 16:43 )CIA Snooper Wrote: There doesn't appear to have been any press conference on 31 March. I think that's one of your many inventions. You're probably referencing the video he posted on Facebook on 1 April in which he mentions the date of 31 March.
er, yes, it was a Facebook video, not a Press Conference as I said. It was a public announcement via social media (on facebook):
https://www.facebook.com/bucharada.gov.ua/videos/270161321982745/
(30-04-2022 16:43 )CIA Snooper Wrote: You also state that the mayor made no mention of the dead in Bucha on that occasion, but you fail to mention that on several previous occasions he had in fact referred to the dead bodies laying around and the mass graves.&
(01-05-2022 16:25 )george lusk Wrote: As others have pointed out, there was no press conference on 31 March and anyway the Mayor of Bucha had already mentioned the scores of dead laying around on several occasions before that date.
- I didn’t deny the Russians haven’t killed anyone there. I said from the outset that this is plainly the case, only that there is highly convincing circumstantial proof to show Azov Battlion radicals and other far-right nationalists have also killed scores of people (I speculate, probably Ukrainian people suspected/thought to have had sympathies with Russians/Russia).
No news of these mass graves in our media now that the crime scenes in Bucha are freely available to explore in order to examine and ascertain more information of what happened in more details.
I said before:
(30-04-2022 13:53 )crankshaft Wrote: The UN Security Council explicitly refused Russia the right to give evidence the next day (Tuesday 5th April)
In response Barries BF said:
(30-04-2022 16:06 )BarrieBF Wrote: That's false. Russian Ambassador Vassily Nebenzia spoke at great length at the UN Security Council meeting on 5 April. Nobody tried to stop him.
No, it wasn’t at great length. The Russians didn’t get to make their presentation, only make a relatively short statement. They were offered a separate meeting to discuss the situation in Bucha to be scheduled alongside the already prearranged meeting on Ukraine on the 5th April, but the Russians rejected this on the grounds that they believed the situation in Bucha deserved it’s own stand alone meeting which, if following on from another meeting, would constrain the time that could be allocated to discussing the issues
I also said before:
(30-04-2022 13:53 )crankshaft Wrote: the Emergency meeting had one purpose and one purpose only - to kick Russia out of the UN Human Rights Council (although alot of countries abstained in the vote).
In response Barries BF said:
(30-04-2022 16:06 )BarrieBF Wrote: That's false again. It was the UN General Assembly that voted to suspend Russia from the UN Human Rights Council, not the Security Council.
OK, but the prospect of this happening was mooted in this Security Council meeting
Finally, re: the video filmed off Ukrainian army personal entering into the city - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7yIyNBMpQY&t=2s at one point in the video, a Ukrainian woman is said to direct the National Guard fighters to where the "saboteurs and collaborators are or were"
RE: Russian Invasion Of Ukraine - BarrieBF - 02-05-2022 01:15
(01-05-2022 21:47 )crankshaft Wrote: No, it wasn’t at great length. The Russians didn’t get to make their presentation, only make a relatively short statement.
Ukraine President Zelenskyy gave an impassioned speech to the Security Council on 5 April. It amounted to 2130 words. The Russian Ambassador spoke 3630 words that day, which I personally wouldn't class as a short statement.
(Note: word counts based on the texts available on the UN's own website).